Bluewater Canyon 9.2 Vs. 9.2 DS

[jddrahei]

Deciding on my first rope....

Is the DS worth the extra $ ? Is it really that much more abrasion/cut resistant? Any other benefits I'm missing here besides abrasion and 1000lbf of extra tensile strength?

[Paul Nelson]

I used the BW Canyon 9.2 DS once, and I liked they way it handled while on rappel compared to the non-dual sheath 9.2. I cannot say anything about its durability.

You might also consider Sterling's Canyon Tech. It is 9mm with a nylon core and a technora sheath. I have been using the Canyon Tech and I like it a lot. It handles great on rappel and seems very durable. However, the CanyonTech is hard to find. I did a search for an online retailer and found a site that sells a 200 footer for $200, it is slightly cheaper than the BW Canyon 9.2 DS.

A rope with a nylon core and a polyester or technora or DS sheath is a very good choice for a first rope.

Paul

[rcwild]

Hi Jim,

As always, I like to start my 2 cents with "It depends ..."

In this case it depends on the types of canyons you'll be doing, how religious you are about edge protection and some basic economics.

In 1999 I brought back some specialty canyon ropes made with polyester sheathes and polypropylene cores. They were pretty cool. Handled very well and actually floated. We used them in a couple polished-limestone canyons in France and Italy and they held up very well.

I brought them home and used them in a granite canyon in Arizona. They started show a little wear after a couple trips. Then I took them through some sandstone canyons in northern Arizona and southern Utah. Destroyed them.

Could have gotten more life out of them if I had used edge protection, changed abrasion points, etc. – you know, all those things we talked about in your course.

When you consider the economics, you have to ask yourself – "If a rope costs 10% more because it has a tougher sheath, will it last at least 10% longer to justify the additional cost?" In the comparison between Canyon and Canyon DS, the answer is yes – if you are comparing apples to apples. Meaning, if you do the exact same canyons and use the same level of care with each rope, I believe the tougher sheath on the DS will definitely justify the extra expense.

You will likely receive some private emails and PMs from this thread suggesting you consider other ropes. That's okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I happen to be a loyal BlueWater fan and I have both the Canyon and Canyon DS in stock for immediate delivery. :D

[SLewis]

Canyon season on again - been in the winter backcountry since late Nov (and away from cyn web sites). My first seasonal cyn foray over a week ago allowed me to see first hand a canyon SAR effort - Tropic SAR; UPH chopper; Kane/Garfield Sheriff- event at North Wash. Myself and the Arhart's got involved collaterally and directly assisting the other three parties in the group. Interesting to see the array of ropes SAR had. And after the rescuee was collected, I got involved in retrieving the "two ropes left by his mates" the nite before. "Climbers from Denver area", they had let out two, nearly 200 ft. long, dynamic climbing ropes, for two 50 ft or so raps into the upper portion of Main Lep Cyn.

A short point of view:BW Canyon DS 9.2 is a great canyon rope. If you have the money and wish to connect with a vendor like Rich - then buy. But other options abound. Imlay and Sterling 9mm lines are generally much less expensive and on the whole just as or nearly as durable. And depending on the canyoneers experience, savvy, skill and expected travel and use, partnering with 8mm lines also may also easily become an interest.

[rcwild]

But other options abound. Imlay and Sterling 9mm lines are generally much less expensive and on the whole just as or nearly as durable.

And opinions abound.

[oldno7]

There is absolutely no way you can go wrong with the 9.2 canyon!!
Take care of your rope,change abrasion points,protect suspect edges.
Very good rope for all levels of experience, get the canyon first and learn with it, it is very forgiving. Then if you have $$$$$ burning a hole in your pocket get a DS later. You can probably find someone on here who sells Bluwater.

[SLewis]

Options, opinions, subjective summary and, objective weight measurement and cost? If one size were to fit all in this canyoneering "game" then we humans could shed our veneer and become androids and all use the same biners, rap devices, harnesses, ropes and unified skills and techniques. But I've heard the moniker "depends" too many times and with novice canyon groups I offer the same sway of maybe, maybe not. R Carlson is one of the best and most thorough canyon instructors I have ever seen. I laud him for his encyclopedic background and insight. But still, there is a cost & weight component to ropes and an in field "wet and dry" intangible - how do they really behave and wear. I very much accept there are a constellation of subjective views re what ropes might be best, or best work for this or that group. For me, I'm lucky, I've a quiver to pick from and use. Who I'm with, where we're going; and/or, who wants to bring their rope(s); will most often cause the (rope) dial to spin. Had I an endless stream of cash and connections (and more confidence in 8mm BW lines) I'd likely lean toward BW canyon lines exclusively. But Tom is out there, and has a credible product in my view, and a while back, some new Sterling canyon ropes were dropped in my lap. So I/we just look at the lines?; or NO, we get out and use them, (and weigh them and note what they cost) and then form opinions on the ropes; and then at times - hopefully in a civil mode -share our views. Frankly I wish I was more up to date re what new canyon lines are available; or alternatively what canyon ropes, BW for example, might have been updated. Long ago I wish I'd had a mentor that could have guided better in the canyon rope arena - talked about and discussed various options. With the cost of lines these days, purchase of a rope can dent the wallet. I offered the narrative and I'll stick with it; If one has the money, the BW 9.2 DS is a fine line, but for less cost, other viable 9mm rope options (at least in my view) exist. The BW Canyon is just one example. (I should note, I have 3 BW 9.2 DS ropes; and one BW 9.2 Canyon. Some of these ropes no longer wear their orange tint, they are a dull gray. Still sturdy and strong, just void of their showy superficial "make up.") That's a BW (rope) compliment, in case anyone questions. The (a) real fiasco though with ropes though is what "temp" emotions rise too when lines stick. Ten days ago I was in a canyon - new to me - windy twisted corridor - a hundred foot drop. (two of us, I was the last down) As soon as I landed I knew the pull was going to be a bugger; and once down I realized, that if I were to do it again, I'd have set the rap differently, likely with a cheap pulley that would have been left. For a good while things were tense; and then karma smiled and walla, the rope pulled free. I despise getting ropes stuck - it's against my religion. But what is part of my canyon religion is to accept a diversity of views, carry an upbeat attitude and try to enjoy the ride - with interesting & fun people. And as long as an intended canyon rope is in the top tier "champion class", it can join in the fun (and fray) too.