Canyoneering Shoes

[rcwild]

Footwear for canyoneering always seems to involve compromise. Shoes sturdy enough to provide good ankle support and stand up to abuse may not be light enough for swimming. Shoes that do a good job of draining water often will also allow sand, gravel and debris to enter. Shoes that have good rubber for traction on wet rock often do not have adequate footbed support to protect feet from sharp rocks.

This is the place to share your gear reviews. Please help us keep this forum organized by posting all of your footwear related reviews as replies to this message (use the "PostReply" button). Ask questions or start a new thread by using the "NewTopic" button. Thank you.

[rcwild]

Review submitted by Rich Carlson

In my opinion the 5.10 Canyoneer is currently the best possible shoe for technical canyoneering. The Canyoneer's design and development was inspired by a European canyoning guide that became frustrated by the inadequate footwear worn by the majority of his clients. He asked Five-Ten to make a shoe with a sturdy sole that provided good traction. He also asked for good ankle support and a shoe that would drain water well. All things considered, the Canyoneer does a fine job of meeting all of these criteria. Soles are made with Five-Tens stealth rubber, so they grip very well even on wet rock. The Canyoneers do have two design flaws. First, the buckle system results in a strap that sticks out and tends to catch on things, like my rope as I coil it. Second, the ankle cuff was meant to provide ankle support and does, but not very well. And because it does not snug down tight, it also allows sand and other debris to enter the shoe from the top. Five-Ten assures me that both of these issues have been addressed and will be fixed in future production runs. If you plan to do any canyoneering this season, don't wait to make the investment. The flaws are minor annoyances compared to all the benefits that these shoes provide.

www.five-ten.com

[rcwild]

Review submitted by Shawn Peterson

Teva's spider rubber is really very sticky and seams to grip as good, if not better, than anything I have tried so far. It is a full shoe so it keeps the sand out well, although a little does get in though the mesh from time to time. I wore mine in Egypt 0 (Escalante) and in a narrow side canyon. I scraped away the webbing on the side so they will lace up tight. All and all, on a scale of one to ten, I give these an eight.

[rcwild]

Review submitted by Rich Carlson

Salomon Raid Runners. When I first saw these shoes I thought they would do a good job for technical canyoneering. After all, they were designed for adventure racing and include a snug-fitting neoprene collar around the ankle. As it turns out, they just don't have enough traction on wet rock. Nonetheless, they have become my favorite trail running and hiking shoes. What they lacked in traction, they made up for with comfort. If you are primarily exploring dry canyons I think you will really like these shoes. Since I acquired mine two years ago, the name has changed, as well as the colors and some elements of the design.

[rcwild]

Teva Sandel Hiker

I got these shoes last year because my old mountainnering shoes were really falling apart. They looked quite OK. Sturdy sole, neopre cuff, big staps and high enough to give some support. Ohh, and the price was right, they were on sale....... And now I wonder why, NOT!

These shoes suck big time! The sole is way to hard, has not friction and is formed like a brick so walking is a pain in the but. (aspecialy if you just broke your ankle 2 month before). They are very heavy, and don't give much support. The straps come loose and the little rubber rings you get to prevent that won't stay put in the water.

Bottum line; Don't be a cheap ass as I was. Spend a buck more on some proper shoe. I just ordered the Canyoneer.

Merijn

[rcwild]

Submitted by cjain

I've worn Salomon Raid Runners in a number of wet canyons and I agree. They did OK but their traction isn't that good compared to the 5.10 canyoneers.

[rcwild]

A couple of friends have used the Teva spider rubber and have been dissapointed, at least in wet situations. They report that it does stick moderately well, but that it tends to release suddenly and unexpectedly. It seemed like the transition from sticking to not sticking was more sudden and less predictable than they wanted. I witnessed a couple of knee bashing slips while with one of them. It really messed with his confidence. I think both have gone back to 5.10 rubber exclusively.

Paul Martzen

[rcwild]

I just returned from a ten day stint in the desert teaching an ACA course and playing in the North Wash area where I spent every day working a new pair of canyoneering shoes, the new La Sportiva Boulder. After this thorough shake down I could see this shoe easily becoming my all time favorite for canyoneering.

La Sportiva designed the new Boulder as a performance approach shoe primarily for climbing and it appears to cross over into the canyoneering application very well. As with most La Sportiva shoes the new Boulder is a particularly good fit on my medium volume foot. The toe shape is slightly pointy (for climbing) but not at all restrictive in the toe area.

I found the sticky, dot rubber sole to easily be as grippy as the Stealth rubber on my 5.10 Canyoneers. The sole is slightly stiffer than the Canyoneer providing a little more support. This is particularly useful when jamming in cracks, and does not seem to sacrifice sensitivity. The sticky rubber, slingshot rands seem to be very durable, jam great in cracks and protect the upper from excessive wear.

The upper is made from a very robust leather that is much nicer than the leather used in the old Boulder (those of you who have the older model know what I mean). The shoes lace up rather than buckle and the lacing system seems to work just fine.

The shoe has proved to be very comfortable and repeated dunking have not presented draining problems in spite of not having those cute little drain holes.

They are low top shoes and so do not offer extra ankle protection/support for those who look for this feature but personally, this doesn't make any difference to me. I actually prefer the superior ankle flexibility.

If anyone out there is looking for a new shoe this season I strongly recommend considering this shoe.

Charly

[rcwild]

I have tried the La Sportiva Boulder for the last two months, including stints in Colorado Plateau canyons, a few wet canyons in the Rockies and hikes around town. I have to say, I like these *much* better than the 5.10 Canyoneers. As a comparison:

- The Boulder's sticky rubber is easily as, if not more sticky than the rubber on the 5.10's

- Unlike the 5.10's, the Boulders are built to last. No more broken buckles, peeled away soles and holes worn in the webbing mesh that accompanied my 5.10's after 2 months of use (6 canyons?!?). The Boulders are leather (not mesh) and the sticky rubber wraps up to protect the toes.

- The Boulders drain just as well as the 5.10's.

- Mine were a few dollars cheaper than the 5.10's and didn't require special ordering.

There are a few downsides to the Boulders which I think are vastly outweighed by the advantages, but warrant mention nonetheless:

- The shoe laces ripped on my first outing. No problem, I replaced them with a stronger set of laces.

- The tops are low and sand tended to slip into the shoe as I hiked. This was remedied by a pair of short gaiters.

- No ankle support, but like Charly, this is not something I require in a shoe.

- They look like bowling shoes, but then again, the 5.10's are no fashion statement either.

I highly recommended them as an alternative to the 5.10 Canyoneers.
_________________
Mike
dallin@on-line.com

http://estes.on-line.com/rmnp/advguide

[rcwild]

Submitted by cjain

Thanks Charly and Mike!

I just picked up a pair of these on clearence. I think they are the 2002 models. I notice that they are largly leather. Howe well does this leather hold up to the repeated wetting and drying encountered in canyoneering? Are your Boulders still holding up well?

Charly, were you talking about the 2002 models or the 2003 models? (I notice you posed in Nov 2002, but I'm not sure when shoe companies release their new model shoes.)

[rcwild]

cjain,

The model I am using is the 2003 Boulder which is different from the 2002. In spite of being an all leather shoe, this model has held up extremely well to repeated soakings and dryings.

I believe this is becuase La Sportiva uses a high quality top split leather in this model and covers high wear areas with a rubber rand.

Charly

[rcwild]

Hey all,

I have to join here. I've been a very loyal user of them Boulder shoes since 1996. So for about 7 years now I've been hiking, climbing and doing canyons with the Boulders.
They are very comfortable.
They last longer than anything else I've tried.
They do stick much better then all others I've seen.
They are fairly cheap.
They...
Enough repeating what's been said alredy.

Great shoes!

Eshed

[jndfrank]

I am curious whether anyone has tried the NRS wetboots for canyoneering. They have two slightly different models shown here:

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2339&deptid=1169#

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2338&deptid=1169

They would appear to offer better ankle support than the 5.10 Canyoneers. I am thinking they may be good for off-season trips in colder temps.

[Brucew]

Chota Gaiter Socks have done an excellent job of keeping sand and gravel out of my Canyoneers.

http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,3334.htm

[Darren Jeffrey]

5.10 Access Tennie, with Black Diamond Front Point gaiters.
Pros:
Large toe box that works perfect with many arch inserts, Seal Skin water socks or neoprene booties depending on temps. The sole is thick enough to offer heal and arch protection while walking on rounded rocks all day. (Minimizes the minor aches and bruising on the bottom of the foot wear many other water socks/ shoes made for the river or diving cannot) Stealth Rubber at its finest, drains well as a low top with tightly woven mesh sides, BD gaiters keep the junk out and offer some protection in keeping the shoe on your foot in heavy water. (We have see a few Salomon's go floating by…) leaves all the others behind as a perfect approach shoe for climbs as well…

Cons:
Tread delaminates on the rear heal slightly (about a ½ inch over time)... :(

Solution; a quick shot of super glue (from the 1st aid kit) will repair the problem immediately for the life of the shoe at home or in the field.

Our team has worn and is wearing this model in every canyon imaginable the only place it doesn’t work is HI, there nothing will work, as the gods are trying to figure out who we are and what we want spitting us out into the ocean on every canyon we hit… :) (they are holding up under ocean swims (salty) inside our short dive fins as well… )

[ducktapeguy]

Just recieved my 5.10 canyoneers today, having some mixed feelings about it. Let me just say I'm not much of a canyoneer, but I was hoping these shoes might help out a little. At least maybe I won't have to stop every 100 yards to drain out my hiking boots. I bought them thinking I could use them on a beach backpack trip, but it looks like I probably won't.

I haven't had a chance to use them outside yet, but the first thing I notice there's very little padding in this shoe. I guess I'm used to tennis shoes or my hiking boots (Lowa GTX mid) with ample padding. This shoe has very little cushioning on the sole, and almost none on the uppers. When I first put them on, it kinda feels like walking on a board. Is this just something I have to accept on true canyoning shoes? Also, does anyone know if these shoes will "break in"? I'm not used to a synthetic shoe, but the toe box feels very stiff, and there are certain areas that I think might cause problem with my feet. On my leather hikers, these areas eventually conform to my foot, not too sure if these will react the same. Or maybe I just have to buy thicker socks to compensate. I really do like the stealth rubber soles, I gave them a try on the side of my house, and I can definitely notice a difference in grip, although now there's a long black streak I have to hide with a plant.

As for ankle support, they definitely aren't hiking boots. I think they provide about as much ankle support as a regular shoe. The neoprene just isn't stiff enough, and the straps don't tighten securely enough to really provide any support. I'm still debating on whether I should keep them or return them. If i return them, you'll probably hear me squishing my way down a canyon in my hiking boots again.

[mtngoat59102]

After wearing through a couple pair of the 5.10's I have been much happier in approach or light hiking shoes with 'sticky' climbing rubber on the soles. Vasque and LaSportiva have been my favorites so far. The Vasque boots with the Stealth rubber soles are awesome and I'm on my second pair. (don't buy the gore-tex version) I tend to buy them a half-size big to help with room for the neo sock. YMMV.

[az-outdoorsman]

I found this Five Ten Canyoneer 2 photo on an Italian (?) website.

http://www.ceffo.com/images/Canyoneer%20_ps19.jpg

I did a Google search and came up with nothing so far in English on the new model.

Then I found that Zion Adventures is no longer blowing out the 2004/2005 models at $60 (current Canyoneer price is $100) and states this on their site about the Canyoneer 2 that was suppossed to be out this spring.

http://www.zionadventures.com/store/detail.amp?prodcatserial=303705


After many years working with 5.10 at the design table with low, mid, and variable iterations of shoes, we came up with today's design. Proven over the last 4 years to be the most popular canyoneering shoe in both the US and Europe, this shoe has limited production in the US for 2006. Zion Adventure Company is the only retailer for these shoes in North America. Delivery of the Canyoneer 2, an upgraded version, has been halted for this coming season as we refine materials and attempt to rebuild the shoe from the ground up. We look forward to offering this new revision, the Canyoneer 2 in late Spring of 2007.

Looks like we have to wait another year : (

- Darrell

[sonnylawrence]

Did anyone go to the Outdoor Retailer's show in Salt Lake these past few days? Did you stop by the 5.10 booth?

[charlybldr]

I was not at the show but just talked to the Rocky Mountain Sales Rep who confirms the statement above. The new shoe won't be available until spring of 2007. The current model will be available in limited quantities through 2006.

Charly

[charlybldr]

I know 5.10 Canyoneer fans are dissapointed with the news that the new redesigned shoe will not be available this year after all and that the current model will only be available in limited quantities.

As an alternative, the new La Sportva Exum River should arrive in country any day now. I just talked to them and they are planning to deliver this shoe to stores later this month.

I tested a pair last summer that in spite of not being my size, I liked very much. Sportiva has been working on the design of this shoe for three years and have come up with a very nice product. I hope to get a pair soon and will report on its fit and performance.

Charly

[gioffri]

I was not at the show but just talked to the Rocky Mountain Sales Rep who confirms the statement above. The new shoe won't be available until spring of 2007. The current model will be available in limited quantities through 2006.

Charly

they say that in Italy the new show will be available this summer.

Ciao.
Gianfranco
www.x-gatt.com

[gioffri]

they say that in Italy the new show will be available this summer.

Ciao.
Gianfranco
www.x-gatt.com

SHOE....sorry

[gioffri]

they say that in Italy the new shoe will be available this summer.

Ciao.
Gianfranco
www.x-gatt.com


on the website www.ceffo.com in the page http://www.ceffo.com/pagine/it/19/FIVETENCANYONEER2.html you can find a description and new photographies of Five Ten Canyoneer 2.

Ciao.
Gianfranco

[charlybldr]

It's 4 degrees in Boulder and there's five inches of snow on the ground. To take my mind of the cold I dropped in on Mark Day at La Sportiva this morning. Thought I'd check an see if the Exum River had arrived yet. Although I was dissapointed in this regard, I got to try on what I expect will be yet another awesome approach shoe from La Sportiva. The Cirque Pro.

For you climbers out there who might be familiar with the Super Drago, the Cirque Pro is basically an all leather version of this shoe. First impression is that they fit great and should climb like crazy. With an all leather upper, full wrap rubber rand and sticky dot-rubber sole this shoe promises to be a great North Wash/Arches NP shoe (max climbing performance and high abrasion). They look like they're gonna wear like iron.

I'm taking this pair to Cali next week for their trial run. Full report to follow.

Charly

[brucefrombryce]

In my first ever visit to North Wash, with Ram's group, I wore my Exums and wore through two sets of shoelaces. Twice this resulted in my foot coming out of the shoe in a tricky spot.

As I was mostly going down, thereby ceating an awful lot of friction on the shoes and not doing a lot of high stemming, is this more a problem of my technique rather than a weakness in the design? Thanks for your thoughts.

bruce from bryce
An ACA Trained Beginner but getting more experience

[mdd]

Bruce, were you wearing the Exum Ridge, or the Exum River? The Exum River, which I believe isn't on the market yet, has a buckle around the top of the foot which should keep your shoe on:

http://www.sportiva.com/products/prod/369

I tried to use a pair of Exum Ridges once several years ago, and pretty much trashed them after one southern Utah canyon trip, but then again they aren't really designed for canyoneering. Since then I've gotten a few cheap pairs of the La Sportiva Boulder, which aren't the most comfortable to hike in, but have held up remarkably well, even in abrasive canyons. However, one weak point is the shoe laces - the stock laces tend to break after just one or two canyons. So I replace them with beefier ones when I get a new shoe, and carry an extra lace around just in case. FWIW, I descend all sorts of canyons every year, from abrasive sandstone slots to high mountain canyons with lots of flow. The stock laces even tend to break in the high mountain canyons, though not as fast.

I really hope the Exum River gives the 5.10 canyoneers a run for their money. I've trashed soooo many 5.10's a little quicker than I like...


M

[brucefrombryce]

I don't really know what the model was (is). As an approach shoe they are very comfortable and for the wet canyons I did in Zion last year -- great. My first two canyons were Pine Creek and Keyhole and I rented 5.10s and could really feel the rocks through the soles.

There were only two of us with different shoes this weekend and the rest were 5.10s.

Maybe I'll get one of each and use where appropriate.

[charlybldr]

I spent three days in my Cirque Pro's last weekend teaching an ACA course at Stony Point, California. Much of my time was spent standing still. Nonetheless, I was able to get in a little bouldering and quite a bit of scrambling on the rough, sandstone boulders that dominate the landscape.

The Cirque Pro performed admirably.

The Cirque Pro is a long way down the evolutionary chain from the original La Sportive Boulder. (Many of you may remeber this shoe.) The first generation was colored an interesting gray/purple mix. Some people liked the look of the shoe, others hated it. So the second season it changed color to a dark gray. The original Boulder climbed great but the split grain leather uppers didn't have a protective rubber rand so the shoe did not hold up well to canyon style abrasion.

The next generation Boulder was redesigned and incorporated a higher quality full grain leather upper (the shoe Mike refers to above) and a beefy rubber rand wraping around the high wear parts of the shoe. Upper durability increased dramatically however the soft rubber compound that made the soles so sticky, also wore out quickly.

Enter the Cirque Pro. I think Sportive has finally got it with this one. The shoe fits great. No pointy toe (as in the last generation) so you can fit 'em snug without giving up comfort for long approaches. Plenty of midsole support for slickrock hiking but sensitive enough to climb well. Durable rubber rands surround the high wear areas of the shoe and the sticky, dot-rubber sole is as good as any I've climbed in.

Initial impression is that this shoe will hold up well but only time will tell. I'll come back with long term report after I've put a few more miles on 'em.

Charly

[smallory]

Another great thing about the Cirque Pro is the lacing system. The system makes the shoe very comfortable. If you are familar with the Mythos climbing shoe you will know what I am talking about. Sucks big time if you have to replace the laces though.

[DudeMan]

Canyoneer 2 COMING SOON......I called five ten to see if those 2007 rumors were true. They told me they will be available to ship in May of this year (2006). So I put my order in. Those Zion outfitters are full of it. I'll let you know how they work out when I get them. Love peace and hairgrease---The Dude.

[sonnylawrence]

I live two miles from 5.10. I was in the shop last Friday. They had none of the old Canyoneers. They said the new ones will be out in May.

[koentje]

I live two miles from 5.10. I was in the shop last Friday. They had none of the old Canyoneers. They said the new ones will be out in May.

What exactly did they mean by "the new ones"... ? The new shipment of "the old ones" or the completely new ones ?

Here in Europe the distributor will receive a batch of the new "old ones"...

[sonnylawrence]

I will have to ask them for clarification. The Five Ten main office is here. They only open for retail on Friday 1 to 6 pm.

[rcwild]

The way I heard it ...

5.10 encountered some production problems with the new, revised Canyoneer, which was originally scheduled for introduction in 2006. Word is, the new, revised model will not come out until 2007. To meet current demand, they are producing a limited run of the OLD model to ship in May 2006.

This from a reliable source within the outdoor industry. We'll see.

[DudeMan]

I called them back to clarify if i really ordered the Canyoneer 2's and its true they will be out in May and my order is already in. If you dont beleive me call five ten your self. Their number is on their website. Boooya.

[rcwild]

Excellent. Looking forward to hearing if Zion Adventure Company is selling off some of their stock of old model Canyoneers now.

[charlybldr]

I just got off the phone with Mark Day at La Sportiva. The long awaited Exum River is has arrived and is now available. Sportiva will begin shipping the shoe to dealers today.

For the location of your local dealer you can contact La Sportiva at 303 443 8710.

The Exum River promises to be an excellent replacement for the now hard to get 5.10 Canyoneer.

Charly

[rcwild]

Thanks for the update, Charly. I've been using a prototype pair of Exum Rivers and like them better than the Canyoneers.

Strong possiblity that we will have a batch to loan out at the next few rendezvous for people who might want to try before they buy.

[charlybldr]

Over the last few weeks I've been hiking and scrambling in my new Exum River's and yesterday, actually got 'em into a canyon.

Fit
As I've said in the past, I get a great fit from the Sportiva last and this shoe is no exception. Snug across the ball of the foot with enough volume in the toe box that I can fit my toes right up to the end (just a teensy weensy bit of space) without touching. Good arch support and with normal lacing my heel is locked firmly into the heel cup. The "strap" secures my heel even better and will be appreciated by those who have trouble getting a snug heel fit.

Hiking
There are a lot of things I like about the 5.10 Canyoneer but long hikes on slickrock aren't one of them. As cushy as this shoe is, my feet get beat by a long day of slickrock pounding. The Exum River by comparrison offers quite a bit more support and shock absorbsion.

Scrambling
One of the things I've always like about the Canyoneer is how it climbs. At first, the Exum River seemed like it was not going to be as sensitive but after a bit of break in they are doing just fine. Arguably, the dot pattern "Frixion" rubber might not be quite as sticky as stealth but it's close enough not to matter.

Durability
Synthetic materials, recessed stitching and covered lacing system all contribute to the durability of this shoe. I haven't gotten them into any North Wash type slots yet but scrambling on the crystaline granite of Boulder Canyon is proving the shoe to be quite robust.

Water
The shoes work great in water. They drain easily and dry quickly and the covered lacing system works great.

All in all my first report card gives hight marks.

Contact La Sportiva (303 443 8710) to find your local dealer.

Charly

[jonasfast]

Hi,

I have used Exum River for two straight weeks now for hiking and backpacking Escalante, Paria/Buckskin, and Zion. No technical canyoneering but a lot of deep and shallow water hiking, mud, sand, slick rock hiking and scrambling 3rd/4th/5th class, probably +100M in total. I used them with either neoprene or wool socks. I have used Exum Ridge extensively before for running, hiking and adventure racing and really like that shoe and the River is equally nice in overall use (have to try them on longer runs still though). The main draw back I had with the Ridge is built up of sand inside through the fabric when hiking in soft sand making me remove the shoes frequently to empty them before the toes got crushed. I noted that somehow the River take up much less loose sand overall despite larger fabric pores but it might be due to the hiking in and out of water that build up a protective mud layer for further sand penetration. I have not emptied any sand yet on the go from the Rivers. They look like new after my two weeks due to the sturdier reinforcements and they drain really well with some fun fountains coming out of the sides when exiting water. The exception is some smaller than usual abrasion holes on the outside in the fabric close to where I always tend to ruin all my La Sportiva shoes in a very short time (I guess my feet is not optimal for the LS last or vice versa...:-). Have not used the canyoneers but the friction is really good on both dry and wet sand stone. The strap and the lacing protection is working great as well though I have not been in any super strong rapids or thin slots yet. Just a really nice shoe with a great fit and made for hard work in wet environments.

Cheers!
Jonas

[glennjd3]

I love these shoes, but the old designs really had some bad flaws. With my first set, the rand started peeling away at the toe. 5-10 was great, the place I bought them sent them back and they replaced them with the next improvement (rand stitched at the toe). I started last season (2005) with these and in the first canyon one of the metal drain covers ripped off the shoe. They got sent back again and I've been waiting since then for the replacements (no charge). I was told by the place I bought mine (Hansen High Adventure in Orem, Utah) that the new shoes would go out in June and get to the store by mid-July. I wouldn't spend money on the old models no matter how good the deal. They just have too many design flaws to be reliable over the long haul. I'd really like to the new ones this weekend. It's time to get back into the canyons. Oh well.

James

[DudeMan]

Yep, I just got off the phone with Five Ten and they said they have pushed the release back to July. NOT COOL. Oh well...just have to wait and if they will really be here that soon.

[glennjd3]

Hansen's is trying to get 5-10 to send me a "loner" pair of the old model until the new ones come out. I guess that's about the best I can hope for at this point. A friend of mine as some very nice mesh sided Merrill hikers that he really likes, but I like the ankle support/protection of the high top canyoneer.

[Zarka]

I hope that's a "loaner" pair. Doing canyons as a "loner" would just be sad!

[ratagonia]

As I remember, Glenn has but one leg, thus needing a loaner loner.

Tom

[glennjd3]

Hey, I thought you guys would be more sensitive to the disabled. You have no idea how hard it is to climb with one foot.

[snowguy]

hi everybody

I'm looking for 5.10 , and i found this 2 links.
Wich one is the new 5.10??

http://www.speleo-concepts.com/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.speleo-concepts.com/

http://www.aresta.com/ctlg/?fX=43414c&fS=&fc=5c2043414c5a41444f

[ratagonia]

hi everybody

I'm looking for 5.10 , and i found this 2 links.
Wich one is the new 5.10??

http://www.speleo-concepts.com/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.speleo-concepts.com/

http://www.aresta.com/ctlg/?fX=43414c&fS=&fc=5c2043414c5a41444f

On that second link, the one on the left is the old version, and the one on the right is the new version. My spanish ain't so good, but I can translate:

"Nueva versión de la popular bota Canyoneer de Five-Ten."

Of course, for the REAL 5.10, you'll have to click here:

http://tinyurl.com/j42vq

Tom

[snowguy]

black and blue thats the new one , ok
but on the first link they call it also new , but the shoe looks completely diferent.
http://www.speleo-concepts.com/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.speleo-concepts.com/

[snowguy]

The link does not open directly to the shoes , on the top open BEKLEIDUNG and then open on the left SCHUHE.

Thanks

[ratagonia]

black and blue thats the new one , ok
but on the first link they call it also new , but the shoe looks completely diferent.
http://www.speleo-concepts.com/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.speleo-concepts.com/

Right you are, give the man a neo sock... The picture of the shoe at the first link is what they showed at Outdoor Retailer as the NEW Canyoneer2; whereas, on that other page, they obviously just have a picture of the old one.

Interesting. I wonder what the final shoe will look like? Any guesses?

Tom

[snowguy]

I send a mail to Speleo-concepts and here his answer (shortly traduced from german)
"i asked Five ten Germany and they send me the picture from the new one" the same that are on the webside.
"the shoe are not in minimum before 2 weeks"

here the original in german (sorry for my english)
Hallo,

dieser Schuh sieht eigentlich genauso aus wie das ältere Modell, nur in
blau anstatt gelb.
Ãœbrigens ist der neue Schuh in Europa noch nicht lieferbar.
Er soll frühestens in 2 Wochen ausgeliefert werden.

Danke,

Dieter

Guy Teixeira schrieb:

>Hallo
>
>Schau mal diesen link , da steht auch neue version
>
>http://www.aresta.com/ctlg/?fX=43414c&fS=&fc=5c2043414c5a41444f
>
>hab auch ein groesseres foto dabei gamacht.
>
>Mfg
>
>Teixeira Guy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Speleo Concepts [mailto:speleo@speleo-concepts.com]
>Sent: Freitag, 28. April 2006 13:07
>To: snowguy@pt.lu
>Subject: Canyoneer
>
>Von: Speleo Concepts
> Dieter Blaha
> Friesenweg 6
> 91052 Erlangen
>
>
>Hallo,
>
>ich habe dieses Bild soeben als Bestätigung
>vom Deutschlandvertrieb Five Ten erhalten.
>
>Mit freundlichem Gruß,
>
>Dieter Blaha
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>

[Spatulator]

I like these shoes overall, but they aren't perfect. They do let in a lot more sand than the 5.10's, which isn't a huge problem, it's just annoying. More importantly the strap design is flawed (at least for CP canyons). The plastic pieces that the strap threads through to change direction cause massive abrasion on the strap when rubbing against sandstone. Out of two pairs of shoes one had a broken strap after only two canyons, and another is almost gone after four canyons. If you don't need the strap (which is designed to be removable) then this is a relatively minor complaint. But if you have a narrow heel and need the strap to cinch the shoe in that area, then this will be a major issue. Maybe some sort of reinforced strap either stock from Sportiva or aftermarket from someone like Tom would fix this problem. That's all for now, gotta go abuse them some more.

-Zach

[jonasfast]

I have used mine now at bit more and in three CP canyons and two of those rather skinny. The strap is indeed a weak point at the plastic redirectional, mine are damaged after just two canyons in a weekend. Quickly I also got the fabric on the outside between the plastic reinforcement even more severly damaged, so at least I get out the water faster... On the other hand, that plastic around the shoe does not even have a scratch, and I find that incredible, so I hope they would cover more of the shoe with that material and less fabric (the drainage holes in the plastic works good so more of those would still make the shoe drainage good)! Some abrasion is also seen on a few stichted seams and should be moved or covered by some glue/silicon to last better. The fit is like a running shoe and they are very nice to hike in for a long time.

Jonas

[miro]

I have heard there exists a good glue/stuff/something to
repair FiveTen Canyoneer shoes. What I am looking for
is something to slow-down the sole peeling off.
Any info or pointers where to look will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Miro

[Kirk]

Try Shoe Goo - a pretty durable adhesive. I brought a pair of lightweight hikers back from confetti - seems to hold well so far (2-3x excursions).

[dekej]

I use Barge All Purpose Cement to repair my 5.10 Canyoneers. Like Shoe Goo, it remains pliable even after it dries. When your soles start peeling again, clean off the old glue and reapply. It helps if you use sandpaper to clean and rough up the surfaces you'll be gluing before you apply the glue.

Good Luck,

Deke

[Brucew]

5.10 sells Barge Cement in their repair kits. They say that there are other contact cements that work as well, but they use Barge Cement because it can be shipped without restrictions. In addition to preliminary sanding, a thorough cleaning with denatured alcohol helps produce a more durable bond.

Clamping the newly-bonded parts together overnight also helps. If your shoe heels are delaminating, it is worth your while to make inner and outer forms that are curved to match the shoe. 1/8" aluminum bar stock works well for this, with a C-clamp or welder's clamp to press the two pieces together.

Bruce

[snowguy]

In a lot of europeen canyonforums , a lot of people are talking about seamgrip
http://www.mcnett.com/page.cfm?pageID=549.

[az-outdoorsman]

Well, the Canyoneer 2 drama continues. I just got an update directly from Five Ten on the new Canyoneer 2. They will NOT be available until sometime in 2007. :( They said Zion Adventures will be getting the first orders of another run of the "old" Canyoneer.


Canyoneer 2 COMING SOON......I called five ten to see if those 2007 rumors were true. They told me they will be available to ship in May of this year (2006). So I put my order in. Those Zion outfitters are full of it. I'll let you know how they work out when I get them. Love peace and hairgrease---The Dude.

[snowguy]

I just received one of these new run of old canyoneer.......finally;)

[charlybldr]

La Sportiva has been gracious enough to send Rich a demo fleet of these shoes that I believe will be at the San Gabriel rendezvous.

Charly

[rcwild]

Yep. 15 pairs. Sizes from 7.5 to 13. I'll have them with me at the rendezvous.

Also received a flyer from Mountain Gear offering ACA supporters a discount on purchases. You can download the flyer in PDF format from our Downloads section.

[charlybldr]

I've logged about a dozen hiking days and four canyon, in my Exum Rivers now. I get a good fit in this shoe so break in was a breeze. My hiking and neo sox are the same thickness and I fit the shoes with just a little bit of room in front of my toes.

As a hiking or approach shoe they're great! Up to five continuous hours in 'em with both types of sox. Very comfortible and supportive. Better than 5.10. The sole sticks well on dry rock and seems to be really sticky when it's wet. I've climbed 5.5-6 in 'em with no problem.

They dry pretty well overnight too.

Haven't had a chance to get 'em into any "high abrasion" situations. Looking foward to seeing how they do.

Charly

[charlybldr]

So the rest of my time this spring (see Exum River post), I've been hiking/scrambling in a pair or Cirque Pro's. I get more excited over shoes than my wife and it's easy for me to get all gushy over these. I've been wearing every generation of "approach" shoes from La Sportiva since the category was created. Hands down, these are my favorites!

Comfortible as bedroom slippers, cushy on slickrock and the rubber is as sticky as any I've used. They climb great and with an all leather upper and sticky rubber rand, I'm sure they will be quite durable.

Charly

[paulsailer]

I had a chance to try on a couple of pairs of Exum River at the Rendevous
They were way too tight for me

I normally wear size 12 or size 13 5-10's depending on the thickness of my wetsuit booties. Both sizes are comfortable for me with the right thickness bootie.

I tried 12 1/2 and size 13 exum river, and they were both too tight for me
particularly in the front.

Unlike the 5-10's which are fairly wide (I'm normally an 11 1/2 quadruple E)
The Exum Rives are quite narrow.

Obviously they fit some people who have narrow feet quite well (judging from the reports), but they are sized very differently than the 5 10's and the same sizes may not fit you if you don't have narrow feet. Some other's who tried the Exum river had the same problem.

I haven't tried a size 14 yet (if they make that size) but I suspect that even that might be too narrow for me.

I'd suggest you definately need to try the Exum River for fit before before deciding whether they will work for you.

[MIQ_WRX]

I felt the Exums were too narrow when I first received them as well. I loosened the laces in the ball area and they seem to have broken-in quite nicely now. Now when the shoes are snug they look a little different than other shoes I've owned (more open at the ball) but they are comfy.

Paul you wore shoes that were brand new, right? I think a little stress relief in the narrow areas and some break-in would have helped. It did for me.

-MIKE

[Shelli]

So once the soles of canyon shoes have been chewed into gummy worms, is it worth it to re-sole them? If so, who does resoling?

Thanks!
Shelli C.
Scottsdale, AZ

[skianddive]

So once the soles of canyon shoes have been chewed into gummy worms, is it worth it to re-sole them? If so, who does resoling?Five-Ten sells Stealth® Rubber Re-Sole Kits for $27 to $32 at this web site (http://www.fiveten.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=3_28). And then this web site (http://www.stealthrubber.com/frames.html) lists resolers in the US and around the world, but unfortunately, you'll have to make a trip to Vegas to find the closest one to AZ.

If you don't want to use the re-sole kit yourself, you can probably find a reputable shoe repair place in your area who will install it for you.

If you do not have a pair of Five-Ten canyon shoes, I'm pretty sure these kits can be retrofitted to any shoe because they consist of cut-to-size soles and special glue. Because of this, I think I'd rather have an expert do the work.

So, you have to add the cost of the kit and then what a cobbler would charge (I think about $25), and you're up to about $60 including tax. So then it depends on how much you can buy a new pair of canyon shoes for?

There are couple of stores selling the Five-Ten Access and the Vasque Catalyst approach shoes, which both have Stealth® rubber, for about $50-$60, so resoling may not be the best bet unless you have more expensive shoes.

[rcwild]

There is a store in west Phoenix called The Wilderness. Not sure if they still do resoling, but might be worth a call to ask.

602-242-4945

[charlybldr]

With the exception of the "dot" rubber resole kit, all those other 5.10 resole kits are for rock climbing shoes. You probably won't be happy trying to resole canyon shoes with this stuff.

The dot rubber should work but honestly, I doubt even a professional will be able to get a good bond after what canyon shoes go through. Much better to just buy a new pair of shoes.

Charly

[skianddive]

With the exception of the "dot" rubber resole kit, all those other 5.10 resole kits are for rock climbing shoes. You probably won't be happy trying to resole canyon shoes with this stuff.That's not true. One of the resole kits is for the Five-Ten AquaStealth® rubber, which I believe is what is used on their Canyoneer shoes (called Amphibia® rubber for their Canyoneer 2 shoes).


The dot rubber should work but honestly, I doubt even a professional will be able to get a good bond after what canyon shoes go through. Much better to just buy a new pair of shoes.Again, not quite true. I've had some of my shoes in for repairs, and cobblers typically have special clamps for bonding the rubber to the shoe. All depends on the store and their expertise, however, so your results may vary. And I know of at least one person who has resoled their Five-Ten aqua tennies with good results.

[bj]

I resoled two pairs of my Five.Ten Nemos with the Aqua stealth rubber recently. I bought the rubber (kit) from 5.10 and brought them to my local shoe repair shop to do the install. I’ve only done two canyons with them but no complaints so far… I did cost me about half what buying new nemos would have..
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
BTW – the customer service person at 5.10 didn’t recommend using the Barge Cement that they ship in the kit. She said to go with whatever the shoe repair shop recommended. I gave the shoe repair guy the Barge Cement and he said something about a vinyl glue/cement and just pushed it back over the counter to me.

[Shelli]

I called them, but they don't do resoling anymore. I'll let ya' know if I find out anything else.

[charlybldr]

I thought I'd put the Cirque Pro's to a test outside their envelope of intended use last week. Spent a couple of days soaking them in water.

The good news is that a thorough soaking didn't ruin them. This shoe is make of split grain leather and my concern was that a good soaking would be pretty hard on 'em. The first day I wore the shoes on miltiple creek crossings while rock climbing in Boulder Canyon. They had a day to dry out (sort of) before I took 'em up to Arapaho Creek. Again, they got a thorough soaking.

Two days later they were totally dry and had not not shrunk (thankfully) nor had they stretched out. I didn't walk them dry but did hike a bit in them after the soakings. Those of you who know footwear understand that there is quite a variety in the quality of split grain leathers used in the industry. Thankfully, the Cirque Pro uses a high quality split.

I don't recommend these as a primary wet canyon shoe but feel comfortible in saying if you ever have to get 'em wet, they will be just fine. And, if you make this shoe your choice, getting them wet shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Charly

[charlybldr]

After ten days of mostly continuous canyoning I have to say the Sportiva Exum River is the best canyoning shoe I've used to date. And this is from a guy who still really likes the 5.10 Canyoneer. Every shoe has its problems however, and the Exum River is no exception. Fortunately, the problems are pretty minor.

Things I would change.
The strap system is nice. I don't have heel slip issues in these shoes but for those who do the strap will really help keep this low top shoe on your foot. Unfortunately, the strap is in a very high wear position on the shoe. Not a real problem in wet canyons but narrow Utah slots will take their toll. I would suggest La Sportiva move the strap to an internal location. No need to make it removable, just protect it from abrasion.

The mesh drains the shoe great. No need for cute little drain holes. It works so well in fact that I would suggest covering the entire area either side of the ball of the foot with the same PU used on the toe cap. Increase durability but not give up the ability to drain one bit. After continuous toe scraping and foot dragging the PU material shows little if no wear.

The things I love about this shoe.
Sticky rubber soles! Ultimately you might argue that the 5.10 shoe is stickier but honestly, I don't see a big difference. If anything it appears that Frixion Rubber used in the Exum River sole actually gets stickier when wet. Might be my imagination but others have commented on this as well.

The fit for me is excellent. The laces are snugged up in packaging so it is important that you loosen them up all the way down to the toe right out of the box before you put 'em on your feet. The shoe will then take the shape of your foot as you lace 'em up. Even wide feet should get a good fit.

Quality. Need I say more. Fit and finish are the best in the industry. One of the frustrating features of the 5.10 shoe is its durabiliy (or lack thereof). They always seem to replace 'em but I'd rather not have problems in the first place. Except for issues with the strap these shoes seem to wear like iron.

Performance? In head to head stickyness on dry sandstone I might give the 5.10 an edge on grip but in every other aspect of performance, the Exum River stands above. I really appreciate that La Sportiva's Frixion Rubber seems to stick well to all rock surfaces sandstone to granite wet or dry and appears to be a bit more durable than Stealth. Good support, comfort, climbing and wet rock performance. I give the shoe an "A".

[shane]

My latest impressions after some hard use.... the shoe is not as sticky as the Five-Ten Canyoneers, but it is much more comfortable. The low cut fills with sand and debris easy. That cute little strapy thingy might be fine in rap-n-swim kiddie canyons, but it is a piece of crap that will get toasted the first time the shoe has to do some real manly work. The mesh in the side will blow out quickly (like one weekend) in hard CP canyons (high abrasion situations).

Overall a good shoe...... a little pricey, but good... :)

A dozen of my partners have switched from Five-Ten to Exum Rivers. All are happy with the switch to date and said the trade-off of gaining comfort while losing some sticky was worth it. None have gone back to the Five-Ten.....

....but.... :confused:

Those who own a pair of the old Nike Air Rivero's (including myself) have all gone back to the Nikes. To bad they stopped making the Nikes. Best Canyoneering shoe to date.... YMMV....

....I give the shoe a "B"....

:D

[skianddive]

Those who own a pair of the old Nike Air Rivero's (including myself) have all gone back to the Nikes. To bad they stopped making the Nikes. Best Canyoneering shoe to date.... YMMV....I have to agree with Shane. I picked up a couple of pairs of Nike Rioveros earlier in the year, and they are well made, have small drain holes that do not pop out, have sticky bottoms, and provide much-needed ankle support.

In 2004, Charly Oliver provided a review on the ACA Forum of an equipment show where the Rioveros were first unveiled. But now in 2006, they are no longer available. Does anyone know what happened? Will a letter-writing campaign to Nike do anything?

[charlybldr]

My guess is that either Nike never brought the shoe to market (did anyone actually see this shoe in stores?) or the shoe didn't sell well (by Nike standards) and so was dropped from the line.

I will be attending the Outdoor Retailer Show next week. I'll drop into the Nike booth and axe 'em "waas up?"

Charly

[shane]

They did make one small production run of the Nike Air Rivero's. At one time you could actually call Nike and ask who was stocking them and they would give you a store phone number where they were available. I got my last pair out of some store in the mid-west (Minnesota?) of all places.

I get the feeling that if Nike can't sell one million pairs then they are not interested. Writing a couple letters will certainly not hurt anything. It will be interesting to hear what Charly digs up.

FWIW: The Nike has one weakness with some exposed stitching. Shoe goo all the exposed stitching on the Nike and they will last nearly forever. I have been using the same pair for 2 years. They are becoming trashed... but I usually only get 6 month's or less out of a canyon shoe.

[J.D.]

After reading all the input on here regarding this shoe, I figured what the hell, I'll go get me a pair. Well, to make a long story short, save your money. Having been a long time Canyoneer fan, I too had grown tired of replacing them after only a few months of use. Not to mention I have had a few pair of La Sportiva hiking boots over the years that have been great, I figured this has got to be a bomber shoe. Yes, it probably is and will without a doubt hold up better than any 5.10 product. My main complaint is with the shock absorption. It has little if any!!! The 5.10 is so much more comfortable especially when carrying weight.(I use 5.10's for kayaking and have on more than one occasion carried 75+ lbs over 10 miles with Canyoneers and had no problems) However, the Exum River left my feet extremely tired after one afternoon carrying very little weight despite it's full length shank. To me these shoes felt extremely soft and I would suggest you spend sometime wearing them around the store a bit before deciding to lay down your hard earned cash. That said, I don't think anyone will be able to tell the difference in the rubber. The Frixion rubber seemed to be every bit as sticky as 5.10's Stealth rubber. Just one guys 2 pennies....

Anyone looking for a lightly used pair of Exum Rivers in a 45?;)

[skianddive]

My guess is that either Nike never brought the shoe to market (did anyone actually see this shoe in stores?) or the shoe didn't sell well (by Nike standards) and so was dropped from the line.

I will be attending the Outdoor Retailer Show next week. I'll drop into the Nike booth and axe 'em "waas up?"Charly,

Did you make it to the show and the Nike booth? If so, did you find out about the demise of the Riovero? Will a small letter-writing campaign do anything or do we have to guarantee them sales of a milion pairs. Do they have a replacement shoe in the works?

Thanks!

[charlybldr]

Lee,

I'm sorry to say I didn't make it by the Nike booth to ask.:( I was only at the show for two days and they were both pretty busy. Didn't have much time to cruise around.

[Spatulator]

My main complaint is with the shock absorption. It has little if any!!! The 5.10 is so much more comfortable especially when carrying weight.(I use 5.10's for kayaking and have on more than one occasion carried 75+ lbs over 10 miles with Canyoneers and had no problems)

This is exactly the opposite of my experience. I hated hiking in the 5.10s with a passion, especially when carrying weight. With a pair of superfeet in them my ER's are great to hike in. They are much more laterally stable and protect the bottoms of my feet from sharp rocks much better than the 5.10s.

ps I had superfeet in the 5.10s as well.

[charlybldr]

Dropped in to the local REI today. They're having a "Labor Day Sale".

The La Sportiva Cirque Pro is on sale for $69 (regularly $90).

I gotta say this shoe is the best approach shoe Sportiva has ever made and I've worn every generation since the original Boulders (remember the lilac ones?). Whether you use 'em for canyoning or not, if you're looking for a great approach shoe, look no further.

Charly

[epuelsch]

I was wondering who else is taking part in the initial test of the new canyon shoes from Mion. They graciously sent a couple pairs down to New Zealand for me and I tested them out today. I was slipping around more than my clients! If you want to keep your pride intact I recommend keeping your 5.10s
Also I think the strings used for closure are dangerous if they get caught on a rock. Not a big deal in Utah but in swift water, a scary notion. I got my foot stuck a few weeks ago going over a small waterfall. It was only a few seconds, but long enough realize how fast things happen. Getting gear stuck is one thing, but it's not as easy to hack your foot off with a knife.:o

Sorry Mion I think its back to the drawing boards

Eric

[charlybldr]

Mion is known for making "open" footwear. Kinda like Teva's with closed toes. I doubt there are any real canyoners in the company so the design probably came from what someone thought would make a good canyon shoe.

[rcwild]

http://www.canyoneering.net/content_img/shoes.jpg This thread is intended for general discussion about shoes for canyoneering.

See: Shoes Article (http://www.canyoneering.net/content/index.php?categoryid=74&p2_articleid=53)

Related Threads on our Forums:

La Sportiva Cirque Pro (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=817)

Sportiva Exum River (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=803)

Shoe Repair (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=945)

Five Ten Canyoneer 2 (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=798)

Footwear (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76)

Five.Ten Nemo (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=354)

LaSportiva Boulder (http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79)

[barleywino]

new ones are out

[SoMoJunkie]

Just saw the Tecnica Immerision shoes on Sierra Trading Post. Has anyone ever tried these or other shoes with the felt bottoms? Just wondering if they work well for canyoneering. STP has these on sale now for $32!!

5-10 also makes (or made) a "Water Tennie". Anyone know about this shoe?

John

[rcwild]

In the mid-90s Adidas came out with a canyoneering shoe with a felt sole and sent a pair to me to try. I shredded the felt in one canyon. They were incredibly ugly, too. Robin egg blue with silver speckles. Pretty sure if I clicked the heels together three times I end up somewhere in Kansas.

Water tennies were out before the Canyoneers. I had a pair and liked them, but I haven't owned any recently so I don't know anything about the newer models.

[wiese]

felt is the way out here. i have 5.10 Dot and you could not pay me to wear it.

for Utah i will be rocking the rubber, but not out here.

take care
EW

[Josh Lorton]

I have a pair of felt bottomed fly fishing sandals. I was hoping to get buy wearing neo socks in them since the give great traction in your average Rocky Mountain river with moss covered rocks.

Unfortunately, they didn’t perform very well in Zion last year. I really wanted to save some cash.

So I pulled the trigger on a pair of River Exums & the difference was amazing.


Josh

[sonnylawrence]

Water tennies were out before the Canyoneers. I had a pair and liked them, but I haven't owned any recently so I don't know anything about the newer models.

I used my 5.10 Water Tennies last week in Egypt 2/3. They were fine.

[catware11]

Hmmm, wonder how they compare to the canyoneers...

Mion Fast Canyon Water Shoes (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=48189880&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&color=SKY%20BLUE&img=/media/v/1216061.jpg&view=large)

[charlybldr]

I was in Zion last weekend with a couple of people who were wearing that shoe. Here are a few of their comments.

Fit
Bulbous toe makes for a comfy fit. Good fit for wide feet.

Lacing
Easy to use but question its durability. (None broke while I was there.)

Grip
Ok. Not even close to Exum River or Canyoneer. Worked fine in sand and loose rocks/dirt.

Upper
Cushy. Protective. Lacing system was easy to use.

Ankle Closure
Not much in the way of support (a la 5.10) but protects ankle nicely.

[amylarissa]

I know nothing of the Mion shoes, but was wondering if anybody out there had experience with the mens La Sportivas. I love my pair, but my husband's strap broke on his after only 2 canyons. He just purchased them a week or so ago...

larissa

[ratagonia]

I know nothing of the Mion shoes, but was wondering if anybody out there had experience with the mens La Sportivas. I love my pair, but my husband's strap broke on his after only 2 canyons. He just purchased them a week or so ago...

larissa

Yes, and no big surprise. The cover strap was a good idea that was poorly executed, but is not essential to the shoe. I just take mine off from the start.

I like mine. Firm enough for all-day hiking without an extra footbed. Holding up well. The laces get cut up in narrow-narrow canyons, and come untied in wet canyons, but otherwise I am quite pleased with them.

Tom
(full disclosure: I am a Sportiva dealer)

[hank_moon]

Has anyone used this brand?


http://korkers.com/index.php

[brucefrombryce]

Not used them and an interesting concept.

That given, I wonder how the soles will hold up with all the abuse we give our shoes in the skinnies?

Maybe I'll write to them, tell them about the canyons I'll use them in and ask for a demo pair.

[sonnylawrence]

I haven't tried the Korkers yet. I use my Kahtoola's along with my G-pick. http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/climbdetail.cfm/kah100

[tj_wetherell]

Ha. Good one Sonny
But don't you really want something with front points to dig into those G-picked holes?

-tom (w)

[sonnylawrence]

Ha. Good one Sonny
But don't you really want something with front points to dig into those G-picked holes?

-tom (w)

Ahh, Tom, you remind me that I am an eternal student. Thanks. :pYes, my BD Cyborg ice climbing crampons with a mono point would work nicely in G-pick holes. :D

[medic86045]

Has anyone used this brand?


http://korkers.com/index.php


I haven't tried the Korkers yet. I use my Kahtoola's along with my G-pick. http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/climbdetail.cfm/kah100

Seems like someone didn't actually look at the original link if referencing crampons. just a thought.

[rcwild]

Seems like someone didn't actually look at the original link if referencing crampons. just a thought.

... or just Sonny's very twisted sense of humor.

[Canyon Kelp]

I spotted this post about some PCT hikers testing gear in Snoqualmie Pass.

It is cross-posted here with the permission of the author.

Cheers
Matt


Actually, the bottom paragraph in this article IS about me. The first group was in fact avalanched. We opted to leave the trail and go cross country (down and away) to avoid this very situation. We left on a short overnight hike with a forecast of 3 to 5 inches of snow followed by rain and wind. Perfect to test new gear. What we got was 3 to 5 FEET of powder followed by torrential rain. We just couldn't make it out without snowshoes. Took 7 hours to go 1 mile.

So it ended up with 4 of us in a 2 man Sierra Designs tent for 2 nights. We immediatly went on reduced rations and pulled together. We had one synthetic sleeping bag. The other 3 were down and worse than useless, everything being thoroughly soaked by this time. I had my alcohol stove and a full Capt Morgan bottle of fuel. We used that for cooking, melting snow, and warmth every hour during the night. We also all had to cuddle. BTW, I'm the 55 year old.

The first night, the snow beneth my butt kept sinking and water came in through the tent floor. Next morning a river appeared on our left about 10 feet away. Another appeared on our right also about 10 feet away. We packed up and I postholed into a third river directly under where the tent had been. Hypothermia was also a big concern along with dehydration. I got to witness a couple of avalanches, new waterfalls, mudslides etc. There is no way to describe the power of water in these conditions. Unbelievable! It takes big trees and boulders along on the first wave like nothing. Sounds like a turbine engine on take off.

It took 3 hours to move 100 yards across the river and up 100 feet to a tree where we again set up camp.

SAR took 36 hours to reach us on snowshoes. A helicopter made 2 passes Monday but didn't see us. One came yesterday and we flipped our Thermorest pads at it and were spotted exactly where we told them we were. In the meantime we had made a path to a clearing so we could get out and do that quickly when we heard them coming.

SAR arrived on foot about noon Tuesday with dry clothes, med gear and food including Gummy Bears and snowshoes. They did first aid to my feet, and we set off. We all walked out!

We all had adaquate gear for the conditions. What happened was I had waterproof socks. Unbeknownst and unexpected by me, they got full of water from postholing (above waste) and actually froze on my feet. I couldn't get my shoes off. This was Sunday about noon. I had 4 pairs of dry wool socks. Didn't help. We chose NOT to warm them with any heat (body, stove) for fear of it happening again. That was the right choice.

I will probably not loose any toes. When we got out, between the 12 or 14 hikers that came in, 2 helicopter crews, 2 ambulances, command post, snow plow, sherriff, there were more than a hundred volunteers involved in this rescue. The hospital fed me twice and I was a celebraty there because most of the staff had never seen frostbite! Anyway, they also gave me warm IV, blankets, and hung all my clothes to dry. The also
gave me morphine even though I was in no pian. My toes felt like they had a shot of novacane. No feeling at all. Then they put them in 85 degree water. Cool to the heal but OMG did it burn my toes. This went on for several hours with progressively warmer tap water.

This morning most of the purple color, waxy appearance and white colored nails are gone. My feet have both swelled to near twice their normal size and they hurt. Its also very hard and painfull to walk. Doc says it will take several days or a couple of weeks to regain normal size and feeling. Got some good drugs though.... Taking today off work (hate when THAT happens!)

Bottom line, $hit happens, even to me! Be prepared! This was only a 4.4 mile and 2000' gain hike. Don't ever wear waterproof socks in freezing conditions. It was only about 20 degrees. We were all warm other than me feet, although very cramped in the tent but we survived a great adventure. Each of us had some piece of gear that contributed to group survival. Synthetic bag, alcohol stove with pleanty of fuel. A 2 man tent, one ice axe, one set of hiking poles, 2 orange sleeping pads, one cell phone (low battery), we pooled the food and shared everything equilly. The one thing we lacked was snowshoes. Even with them on we postholed and fell a lot on the way out. Even the SAR team did that. We all pulled together as a team, no one got scared, mad, or even testy. Even moral stayed good considering.. A grand adventure! BTW,
the differance between ordeal and adventure is attitude. That helped a lot. Thanks everyone for your concern. We did have to cashe some gear on the mountain. It was just too wet and heavy to get it all down. Confidence is high that it will be there when we go to retrive it. Its 100 yards off trail and well hidden in a rugged area. It will probably be a couple of weeks to months before we can get back up there to get
it.
C

[1twopass]

I was doing a search on for canyoneering shoes... weighing my options between the 5-ten and La Sportiva varieties....but these also popped up in my query. They had 'canyoneering' listed as an option. Has anyone out there tried any of these models out in a canyon?

They do look cozy. Not sure if I would want to hike around in them though.
http://www.kayakshed.com/prod/Mens_Five_Fingers.cfm?Sale=0

[lorengrover]

I have been using them for running for about two months. I was going to try them out canyoneering this summer. You have to be careful where you step, as they are a thin covering and not padded. My feet are getting more used to that though. My hope is that as my feet get stronger I will be able to wear them for much longer and more strenuous situations like canyoneering. They are comfortable to wear, but I have heard some people don't like their toes separated. They are light enough that I would easily consider bringing them along to wear as an alternate shoe or until they become too uncomfortable.

I wear the KSO Five Fingers, which helps to Keep Stuff Out (KSO). I like to use them without socks, or with the injinji toe socks.

[rcwild]

I've had a couple students show up at courses with these shoes. Each complained that they don't provide enough cushion and support, especially when hiking over rocks.

[mtngoat59102]

Once upon a time, I had a martial arts instructor who would run barefoot on the treadmill to strengthen his feet. If really strong feet is a goal these look great. I can't imagine hiking over rocky terrain with a 30 LB pack in them. Interesting looking shoes ... it would be interesting if that was sticky rubber.

[gclimb]

Whats the best shoe for slots if I don't want to get expensive canyoneering shoes? Running shoes? Keens?

[rcwild]

Just merged several threads, all about footwear for canyoneering.

[jeflevin]

I really like the Five Ten Insight approach shoe. Sticky rubber, comfortable fit, and built to last. No drain holes, but your foot displaces most of the water anyway. They do take a while to dry out between canyons, which could be an issue for some. I've found them to perform every bit as well as my Five Ten Canyoneers, but even more comfortable on the approach, especially if it's hot.
- Jef

[coinbird]

Anybody have experience with the Merrell Waterpro Maipo (http://www.merrell.com/Shop/Product.aspx?SID=29161&AltNavID=MAF-G-MLT) as a canyon shoe? I'm considering buying a pair and field testing them this Friday. The shoes are pretty comfortable on the foot and the sole looks sufficient.

[1twopass]

I don't know if I would trade the ankle support that the Canyoneer 2s give me for anything. I think 5-ten did a much better job this time around. Nothing gets in those babies. They need to be broken in before you do a really long day because if your going down hill your toes get crammed up in the front.

The Merrells look like they might be good for sub-3B canyons where ankle twisting may not be as imminent.
I am interested to hear how they work out.

[beadysee]

Anybody have experience with the Merrell Waterpro Maipo (http://www.merrell.com/Shop/Product.aspx?SID=29161&AltNavID=MAF-G-MLT) as a canyon shoe? I'm considering buying a pair and field testing them this Friday. The shoes are pretty comfortable on the foot and the sole looks sufficient.

Pretty sure my partner had a pair of these in Zion a couple weekends ago. His assessment (and mine after seeing them) were a big thumbs down.

See the straps that alternate the shoelaces (thin, light webbing alternating with more robust shoe material that the laces are through)? These wore through in one trip. So, his opinion was that they weren't great. Seemed to hike ok, though. Just not durable. And, maybe not that sticky on rock, wet or dry, either.

First trip for my Exum Rivers. Best shoe I've ever used. They show almost no wear and tear on them (still look new, top and bottom). Amazing. Fit is really good for me, and, the stone bruising was non existant. I took them out rock climbing last week, and they really performed well on granite and seemed to do great in Zion when we were there (didn't push them in Zion like I did in Little Cottonwood, though).

Wasn't sure I'd like the strap that goes over the laces on top, but, provides a decent amount of support and keeps the laces buried. Best, it didn't annoy me.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

[NMS]

Whats the best shoe for slots if I don't want to get expensive canyoneering shoes? Running shoes? Keens?

5.10 Canyoneer 2 all the way for me. I have tried everything from New Balance cross sneakers to various types of hiking boot and NOTHING even comes close to the canyoneers. I just got back from Zion and was using these boots for the first time and I cant find fault with them. They were well supported, sticky and great drainage. The only 'problem' I had was a hot spot on one heel but I think that's cos they were new.

[ddpettin]

Anybody have experience with the Merrell Waterpro Maipo (http://www.merrell.com/Shop/Product.aspx?SID=29161&AltNavID=MAF-G-MLT) as a canyon shoe? I'm considering buying a pair and field testing them this Friday. The shoes are pretty comfortable on the foot and the sole looks sufficient.

I purchased the Merrell Waterpro Maipo for the last Zion Rendezvous. Very comfortable shoe but just as Brian from SLC states, the straps that hold the shoelaces (yellowish color) fall apart very quickly. Not durable at all.

I have also purchased the new 5-10 Canyoneers after the Merrell. I have found they although they are a very good shoe they are not very comfortable for my feet. They also run small. I normally wear size 11. I purchased size 12 so I could wear 3m neoprene socks. Even at a full size larger they still fell tight on my toes.

I have been considering buying the Exum River shoes but can't bring myself to spend the money since I can't return the 5-10's.

Definately stay away from the Merrel Maipo.

[canyonguru]

I started out useing the merrell waterpro's but the souls are really thin. By the time i am out of the canyon my feet are done. They are great on dry sandstone but as soon as they get wet they just don't grip, and like someone else said thy fall apart the thin straps get chewed up and break pretty quick. I just bought some Sportiva Exum Rivers. I took them out to Spry on 7-8-08 and they were the best shoe i have ever worn. They worked great during the steep apraoch to Spry and by the time i was done 7 hours later my feet felt great. I have yet to experiece the 5.10 but i heard that they are not that great for aproach hiking but they kick A in the canyon. If you want something a little more versitile i would go with the Sportiva. A little pricy at 105 bones but well worth it.

[Dwayne27]

I also use the exum rivers... overall they work pretty great. I have never noticed soreness of the feet before, but we just got back from a canyon, and my feet are killing. of course, so are my legs, shoulders, back, elbows and knees, so i guess i wont jump to blame the shoes. the one thing i do hate is how much sand gets in my shoes in dry approachhs and canyon bottoms. i have started wearing my neoprene socks for any hike with water or not to help with the sand and that is the best solution i have found so far

[jcampbell]

I've had a couple students show up at courses with these shoes. Each complained that they don't provide enough cushion and support, especially when hiking over rocks.
I've done several canyons in Five-Finger shoes. For canyons were the ground is mostly sand and cobbles, they're not bad. On gravel, and on the approach, however, they are painful. The closest I've been to hell in a long time was the hike into Crystal Canyon, through a cactus field punctuated with volcanic rock, wearing Five Fingers. Next time, I'll keep them in my pack for the actual canyon and wear some shoes overland.

[canyonguru]

i agree with dwyane i use my 2mm neo shorty socks for the entire hike this keeps the sand out of my socks.

[lorengrover]

I just took my Fivefinger KSOs on some canyons in Zion. I wore them on the approach to the Subway, they worked fine for that, then I changed and was glad I did. Some others in the group did just the opposite and reported problems with the rocks in the canyon bottom. They are just too light weight for anything beyond fairly flat, smooth trails. I have previously hiked in the mountains with them up to four miles, and they are fine except for areas of gravel and sharp pointed rocks.

I wore them through a section of Behunin in the canyon bottom, and changed out of them after about 10 mins.

My overall impression was they might be okay here and there, but not worth hauling around or taking time to change in or out of. They don't offer enough protection and could set you up for some serious foot injuries. Just what you need in the backcountry ;) They felt great chilling in Springdale after hiking though.

[mountain man]

Bump

Not quite sure if this should be a new thread or here.

I bought a pair of Exum Rivers this summer. Fit my narrow/thin/long competitive running feet better. On the <ST1:p<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PlaceName>Spry</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Canyon</st1:PlaceType> approach hike I noticed the sole was separating from the shoe. I hadn't worn the shoe much (just braking it in, and one trip through Echo), so it was an obvious defect. Sent it back to LaSportiva and received a call today to say LaSportiva will replace it. Nice customer service.

One thing, LaSportiva said it doesn't have a pair because it’s making changes (updates) to the <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName>Exum</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>River</st1:PlaceType>. So they will give me any shoe I want, from any dealer (local dealer has my size in the <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName>Exum</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>River</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p).

Does anyone know of the changes/updates to the <ST1:p<st1:PlaceName>Exum</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>River</st1:PlaceType></ST1:p?

[Beowulf]

Mountain Man,

Have you found out if La Sportiva is actually making any changes and what they are? Last I had heard from Sportiva is that they were discontinuing the Exum River.

[rcwild]

Exum River is going away for a year or two. La Sportiva Italy re-acquired substantial interest in La Sportiva USA. Decision made to focus on climbing shoes. Exum Ridge was updated. Exum River is based on Exum Ridge, so it will be reworked using the new Exum Ridge last.

[MIQ_WRX]

Has anyone seen the FiveTen Savant shoes? I'm not sure how long they have been available. They're listed as multi-sport shoes for wet and dry conditions and look like they have similar rubber as the Canyoneer. They don't have the molded heel cage like the Canyoneer, so they may not be as good at dealing with a heavy pack. The uppers are mesh so they should drain well, but are probably not as durable. They list for $35 less than the Canyoneers. Anyone tried them or know anything more about them?

-MIQ

[mtngoat59102]

MIQ -

Just one persons 2 cents. However, my experience with shoes with substantial amounts of mesh on the uppers has not been good. Once upon a time, I had to throw away a pair of exum rivers after two canyons ... lesson learned.

[oldno7]

Has anyone seen the FiveTen Savant shoes? I'm not sure how long they have been available. They're listed as multi-sport shoes for wet and dry conditions and look like they have similar rubber as the Canyoneer. They don't have the molded heel cage like the Canyoneer, so they may not be as good at dealing with a heavy pack. The uppers are mesh so they should drain well, but are probably not as durable. They list for $35 less than the Canyoneers. Anyone tried them or know anything more about them?

-MIQ

At least 2 of us on here use savant's. As you said the bottom rubber is the same as the canyoneer. These are great for canyons with longer approach's or exit's. Very nice shoe for those with a wider foot.
Durability: This is somewhat less than a 5:10 canyoneer, after 10-12 canyons they show wear on the sides, even holes. Overall an excellent shoe, much more comfortable than canyoneers. They are a low top shoe so ankle support is non-existant if that is a consideration.

[1twopass]

Has anyone seen the FiveTen Savant shoes? I'm not sure how long they have been available. They're listed as multi-sport shoes for wet and dry conditions and look like they have similar rubber as the Canyoneer. They don't have the molded heel cage like the Canyoneer, so they may not be as good at dealing with a heavy pack. The uppers are mesh so they should drain well, but are probably not as durable. They list for $35 less than the Canyoneers. Anyone tried them or know anything more about them?

-MIQ
Last year during the Utah Rondi, I discovered that my Canyoneers were just too small for Das Boot/Subway. I destroyed my big toe nails (they are growing in quite nicely, thanks for asking) Anyways, in an effort not to punk out the rest of the weekend, I went to town the next afternoon, after Pine Creek, to look for a larger pair of Canyoneers. (Trying shoes on was not fun)

I opted for the Savant's because they were on sale and they had my size. I think they were only $35 at the time.

I agree with oldno7; they were excellent for the rest of the weekend, perfect for the long approaches and exits that were waiting on me. I did however miss the ankle support of the Canyoneers, and know that if my foot ever did get pinched between some rocks my shoe would easily slip out. I suggest that you wear gaiters with them, especially if your going to be sliding down scree hills.

[Dwayne27]

Anyone know a good retailer I can pick some canyoneering shoes up at? I had La Sportiva Exum Rivers... was moderately pleased with them, but they wore out much quicker than I felt like they should. There is something messed up in the heel, and I am getting huge sores everytime I wear them, so I tossed them. I am planning on heading out again the weekend after next, and need to pick up some shoes before then, so I'd prefer to not order online.

I have heard good things about 5.10 Savants, but I am open to suggestions if anyone is passionate about any other shoes. Something with sticky rubber and drains well.

Any suggestions?

[JDClery]

IME, which is in the same shopping center as the REI on 3300 So, carries the Five Ten Canyoneer and Savant. They also have a used section in the back, I got a barely used pair of canyoneers for $75. Last time I was there they had a big selection of Exum River Runners in various sizes and in excellent condition for $65.

I recently bought a pair of Savants as an all around hiking shoe and plan to wear them in the canyons with a lot of hiking since my canyoneers aren't the most comfortable shoe I've had. I haven't worn them enough to give you a great opinion, they're light and comfortable but I question how well they'll stand up to Colorado Plateau canyons.

[gunghoeel]

Just did Rubio Canyon in SoCal yesterday. I was wearing Merrell Waterpro Maipos (older model I picked up barely used at REI for $25) and my friend had Salomon XA Pros.

We hiked to the top of Echo (main trail packed dirt) and then down the backside (loose mulchy dirt) to the stream bed (wet rock, no moss) and then descended the 6ish raps (very slippery and mossy). Then an exit hike up a VERY steep switchback faint use-trail (we were going up the wrong one) until we got onto the right trail.

My review of Merrell Waterpro Maipo:

VERY light and comfortable. Didn't feel them at all and they had sufficient cushioning on the approach hike up Mt Echo. The soles are very flexible though, so I did "feel" the trail more than other shoes I've worn. Warning: the shoes run very narrow, so I would DEFINITELY try on in store before purchasing. I'm 155 lbs and had a pack weight of 15 lbs. Would not recommend for heavier set people or for heavy duty backpacking.

While adequate on the trail, they did not have great grip on the wet rock in the stream bed. Even though I never completely slipped, I was also never able to have complete confidence during stream crossings. While suitable, I would prefer Stealth Rubber on tougher canyons. (Maybe I’ll resole??)

The shoes were great at expelling water. Never ever felt any “squelching” and were still very light after complete submersion in the water. Of course, the shoe was still damp, but if you took them off in direct sunlight and ate lunch, they’d be dry afterwards.

Can’t speak to the durability yet, cuz yesterday was first use. But the materials don’t exactly scream “I’m very rugged and durable!” Instead they scream “I’m extremely light and rather comfortable!”

Rating
Weight: 10
Comfort: 8
Water Explusion: 10
Grip: 6
Durability: No Sufficient Data

[gunghoeel]

I did not canyoneer with either of these shoes, but I did run a series of bench tests on them and got a good up close look at them. So here are the pros and cons of the two shoes and the "winner" in each category.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Please note this is not the <ST1:place w:st="on"><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">EXUM</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">RIVER</st1:PlaceType></ST1:place>, which has been discontinued. It is the EXUM PRO.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Grip: Savant<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I weighted both shoes and put them on a glass table. I slowly started to tip the table to see which shoe would slip first. I repeated this with the shoes in different orientations and also with water on the table. The Exum Pro always started sliding first, but not by much.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Water Expulsion: Savant<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The Savant toe box is almost entirely double-layer mesh. You can easily see day light through the shoe. Water will flow out very easily through the Savant. The Exum Pro has a lot more padding and structure all over the shoe which would stop water from flowing out easily. The Pro is definitely NOT a water shoe.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Sole Flexibility/Cushion: Depends<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The Savant has a lot more cushiony foam between the sole and your foot. So it'll probably make drops and walking on rocks a lot more comfortable. However, the sole is extremely flexible in torsion. The Exum Pro is more rigid in torsion (not as much as a hiking boot) but is a more stable platform conducive to long approaches and hiking.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Durability/Build Quality: Exum Pro<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The Pro is the clear runaway winner here. The materials of the Pro look bomb proof. There's tough, double stitched synthetic leather “ribs” over the mesh upper. There’s also these tough, sand-paper like black inserts at the bottoms of the ribs. The overall quality of the materials and quality of construction is markedly better than the Savant. The Savant looks like it was made in Arts and Crafts camp. The materials look rough cut and the inners have large, loose, obvious stitching that looks like it’ll get damaged the first time you wear the shoe. The shoe is almost completely mesh and looks like it’ll easily get torn up or worn through within the first couple months. The Exum Pro, however, looks like it’ll last many seasons stemming sandy slot canyons and other tough environments.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Ankle Support: Exum Pro<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
The Exum Pro has a rigid ankle cup, with a built-in rubber support strap near the top. There’s also abundant padding around the ankle for comfort. The Savant, however, has a more flexible ankle cup, and very thin padding around the ankle. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Weight: Tie<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Both pairs are ~2 lbs<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Conclusion: The Savant looks like it’ll be a better shoe for wet canyons with easy/short approaches and exits. However, there’s no way the shoe’s gonna last more than a season at best. The quality of materials and of the construction is poor. The Exum Pro is more of a light hiking shoe that offers great support and hiking comfort. Great if there’s lots of hiking before/between/after the raps, but doesn’t look like a great performer in the water. However, expect this shoe to last quite a while.<O:p></O:p>

[cookiecutter]

The Pro is the clear runaway winner here. The materials of the Pro look bomb proof.

I love my Exum Pros, but the durability of them has dissapointed me. One week in canyons and some stitching had come apart and the mesh was wearing quite a bit. The rubber also wears quite quickly, consequence of the "stickiness" of it. Luckily the La Sportiva warranty has covered all my problems and becuase of this I would buy another pair.

I agree with gunghoeel, they aren't the best for water but they suffice.

[tody25]

I have used the five ten savants.They are a nice shoe. The rubber sticks to everything, they drain well, I like the padding. I do see that the savants will not last as long as other shoes because of all the mesh on the sides. The price was good and five ten has an outlet in Southern California. You can get a lot of their shoes for $35 dollars or so depending on what you want.

[nonot]

I have destroyed a pair of Merrill Maipo's - 75 mile backpacks, dayhikes, canyons, etc. First to go is the shoelacing that runs along the outside. Shortly after, the mesh on the sides of the shoes gets cut through.

They have terrible grip on wet rock, but are great if you will be hiking through water.

I only got maybe 500 miles out of them. I really should have thrown them out after about 300 but I'm cheap and think a shoe should last more than 3 months.

I wish someone would combine this design with better grip and more durability.

[gunghoeel]

5.10 Outlet Store/Pro Shop is located about an hour outside of LA:

1419 W State St, Redlands CA, 92373

Hours: Friday 1pm-6pm

[cookiecutter]

One other thing that I have enjoyed about my Exum Pros: They are moderately good shoes for climbing. No shoe can replace a legitimate climbing shoe, but it is a great multi purpose shoe

[FredinUtah]

Any updated opinions on canyoneering shoes?

I have done three canyons with a pair of Teva amphibious shoes. For the most part they work well but would really like a boot style for the ankle support. I know of the 5.10 Canyoneer's but the durability looks questionable & although not really important, I am not fond of how they look.

I was thinking that any non-waterproof hiking boot might work? Then I could base my decision on something I know a lot about.

A well ventilated boot, hopefully would drain well & dry relatively quickly. Another concern, which should be addressed in a decent boot made for hiking would be shrinkage & brittleness of the materials & adhesives used after frequent & prolonged soaking.

But, instead of guessing, I'd like to tap into the vast experience of those who have been doing this for a lot longer than I have.

Your comments are deeply appreciated.

Thanks,
Fred

[degbert]

As a followup, I dropped by IME (SLC, Utah) today to take a look at their used La Sportiva Exum River shoes. They only had sizes 7 and 8.5 left. $75 a pair.

[degbert]

OK, don't laugh, I'm just throwing this out there...

I picked up a pair of Evolv Maximus approach shoes at BackcountryOutlet.com today for $35.

http://tinyurl.com/n5lmbl

Any thoughts on using them for canyoneering? They have leather uppers and sticky rubber soles. The insoles would need to be replaced, and the padded synthetic tongue replaced with something less absorbent. Any thoughts?

[Kirk]

Any updated opinions on canyoneering shoes?

It helps to define exactly what you're looking for. I don't go for "ankle support" myself - I like being able to easily manuver my foot for better positioning when downclimbing, and have found that by going with lower tops, over time my ankles have become stronger, more supple, and less susceptible to twisting.

My preferences usually sum up as follows:
1) semi-rigid footbed - support for extensive walking on shale, gravel, and rocky watercourses
2) synthetic and mesh construction - both for shedding water and durability when exposed to lots of it
3) sticky soles - it sucks to slip and fall

For now, I can find all kinds of shoes that do two of these things really well. Very hard to find a shoe that does all three well, so I end up getting a shoe that somewhat sucks at one of them.

Currently I have an economical pair of Ahnu shoes that do (1) and (2) really well; and I use them for trail running and easier trips. I also have been using 5.10's Prodigy and Camp 4 which are excellent for (1) and (3). They are leather construction, and I'm not certain how they'll hold up in the long term, but the comfort, fit, build quality, and stickiness are fantastic.

:chillin:

YMMV

[Kirk]

OK, don't laugh, I'm just throwing this out there...

I think they'll work great, as long as they're comfortable. Only downside might be mud and water - you'll just have to see how they take it. If it looks like they're falling apart, just stop getting them wet and find another shoe.

$35 for canyoneering shoes? Even the Canyoneers aren't indestructible and will wear out. I'd say try it.

[degbert]

Thanks. I think I will give it a go. I like the idea of a previous post about coating the seams with seam sealer and I'll coat the leather with some Nikwax.

Drainage is the other big problem with these shoes. Where and how big would you drill holes in these shoes to maximize drainage and minimize unpleasant sounds. :-)

[DJ Meding]

It helps to define exactly what you're looking for. I don't go for "ankle support" myself - I like being able to easily manuver my foot for better positioning when downclimbing, and have found that by going with lower tops, over time my ankles have become stronger, more supple, and less susceptible to twisting.

I think your supple ankles are really cute:shy:

[Kirk]

I think your supple ankles are really cute:shy:
Save it for the cabin, big boy...

:heart:

[Kirk]

Drainage is the other big problem with these shoes. Where and how big would you drill holes in these shoes to maximize drainage and minimize unpleasant sounds. :-)

That's adventerous! I'm not a cobbler, but I'd recommend taking a very good look and try to figure out where the shoe is being held together, by glue, seam, or load-bearing material, and stay away from drilling those parts!

I've got the OTB by NRS, and they have rectangular HOLES (1/8"!) in a waffle pattern covering both soles. Can be blocked with the insole. They shed water like crazy, but unfortunately have pretty slippery soles. They also have a number of holes atop each toebox (look like 1/32") and the water spurts up in fountains like the Bellagio whenever I step out. I tried them out thinking they'd make a great shoe for swimming and transitioning to dry land - and they do - but if you want to stick to tricky downclimbs, forget it.

Anyway, that's an example - if I were to drill, I'd go for the non-stressed parts of the upper - esp. the mid-foot sides and the toebox top. Leave the sole, heel cup, below the ankle, and the rim going around from the ball of the foot to the little to (where the rand usually runs) well alone, IMHO.

For the squishy sounds, earplugs are pretty cheap.

Good luck, and curious to hear how your mod works out.

[FredinUtah]

I was just browsing & it looks like this is the single most viewed thread on the board. (I think)

There have been 33,158 views on canyoneering shoes!!!

Looks like there might be a market and a need here. Is anyone listening, Imlay, Petzel, BD,...

Or perhaps, before it is impossible to start a small business in this wonderful county of ours, some entrepreneur can jump on this & fill the apparent vacuum.

I know I am in the market for something(boot style, mens 9.5 please).

Fred

[jacasey]

I bought these many years ago:

http://www.jeffcasey.net/shoes.jpg

I used them up, for sure, as they had completely blown out at the end of a recent Paria River trip. I don't even remember what brand they were, unfortunately. I have looked and looked, and can't find them anywhere.

A few months back, I ordered 3 or 4 likely replacements, and didn't like any of them. I will try the five-ten canyoneer. Meanwhile, anybody recognize what these were, and know of where I can find another pair?

-- Jeff

[gunghoeel]

Shoes are a lot more region specific than you might realize at first. I've gone on a few trips in Zion and in the Southern California area and shoes with a lot of mesh do well in Zion because water and sand flow out easily but are not that fun in Southern California.

A lot of the canyons in SoCal require an approach hike of several hours through tall grass and other desert foliage. Stickers, barbs and all kinds of unfriendly plant stuff easily penetrate into your shoes through the mesh and get stuck there. Gaiters protect your socks, but your toebox and arches are completely open to the barbs that will work their way into your sock and foot.

Souther California hikers know this well. If you've got mesh shoes, or no gaiters/long pants, you're gonna be stopping every half hour to dig the painful barbs out of your socks.

I wear a Merrell Maipo Water shoe and it extremely susceptible to this! My friend wears a Salomon GTX pro with a much finer (and less) mesh and has no problems.

[Sierra Silence]

NRS has a few water shoes/boots that look like they could have canyoneering applications; the "OTB Abyss Boot", the "OTB Odhin Boot", and the "NRS Workboot Wetshoe"

Info can be found here:
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1169

[FredinUtah]

NRS has a few water shoes/boots that look like they could have canyoneering applications; the "OTB Abyss Boot", the "OTB Odhin Boot", and the "NRS Workboot Wetshoe"

You may be on to something here!!!!

There is a video on line & I am excited to look further in to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmfWZwAHts

High top, synthetic leather(not Neoprene), drains, sticky rubber & a very interesting insole system. There are 2 dealer here in SLC, I hope to have the chance to check it out before the Rendezvous. This looks very promising.

Thanks,
Fred

[Endo]

NRS has a few water shoes/boots that look like they could have canyoneering applications; the "OTB Abyss Boot", the "OTB Odhin Boot", and the "NRS Workboot Wetshoe"

Info can be found here:
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1169

Those look like an interesting shoe, at a pretty good price. But after using my Five Ten Access (http://www.fiveten.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=67&osCsid=49d881f98280378501fbfe1323295805) shoes for a while (lighter and more flexible than the Canyoneers), as well as a couple of competing "sticky" shoes, I tend to have doubts about whether they will be sticky enough for what we do.

Going from a Merrell water shoe to the Five Ten was a HUGE improvement in traction.

Joe

[reflexx]

I admit to being a bit of a noob and am looking into my first canyoneering shoes. As good as the Five Ten canyoneers are, I cannot get over the yellow, scubadiver, underwater hiking shoe look. I'd want shoes that are more of a low-top hiking/combat boot build. Very long lasting and no mesh.

Has anyone used other Five Ten shoes (same stealth rubber) for canyoneering (wet)? They have the Exum Guide, the Outdoor Action and the Pursuit Enforcer shoes that look very well built.

AND one more question! My favorite Nikes are size 10m (44) according to the tag, how does that compare to Five Ten sizing?

[sonnylawrence]

I live a mile from the store. On Friday afternoon they open up the back door for retail sales. They also have prototypes and returns and seconds for sale. Consequently I have owned a large number of their products through the years. Bought two pair of prototypes a couple months ago that look similar to the Canyoneer2s. They are made of wire mesh. Cost me $18 each. One pair has lasted 4 canyons. Not so good.
Lots of luck with the sizing. It is not very consistent. I have to try them on. My guess is they use a different last from model to model of their shoes. Plus there is the regular sock vs. neoprene question. I prefer neoprene. Hence I buy larger size.
There are different types of rubber that they use. You can look at www.stealthrubber.com for info. At times other companies use their rubber. So for example, I had a pair of Vasque shoes with sticky rubber I used in the canyons a few years ago. They didn't wear very well.
I think all of the shoes are sticky. I greatly attribute that effect to having fractured my scapula in 2002. While walking in a pair of approach shoes, they grabbed the rock and over I went. Obviously I was supposed to be driving the shoes. Guess I didn't do so well. Took awhile for the scapula to heal.
All of the shoes work okay in the canyons. But the side wall or laces may wear quickly. The Canyoneer2s are better designed for those conditions. So they just last longer.
Last week I picked up a pair of the new SAR Canyoneers for $25. What a deal! Time will tell if they are noticeably different.
I think the Canyoneer2s are the best going, despite their limitations. I go through one pair a year.

[reflexx]

Sonny,

I'm going on Friday. See what I can find. Need a week to break them in before Ice Cube Canyon!!!

thanks,

Gene S.

[moab mark]

My wife thinks they look like something Frankenstein would wear, but they work. IMO nothing works as well in wet canyons. My buddy has been wearing one of 5-10's other shoes in wet canyons and after just a few canyons they are already starting to come apart on the sides.

[reflexx]

Went last Friday and picked up a pair of Pursuit Boots (approx. $70). They fit fantastic and are a light tan color (don't absorb heat!). I can wear these on hikes and in public with no issues. These look like they are built to last and offer a ton of protection.

I also noticed that the rubber on the Pursuits is rated higher on the wet traction scale! The softer rubber will wear faster, but I can live with that. Very comfortable for every day use, but I can't wait to try them in a canyon.

[twobadfish]

It seems like there are still only a few good options for canyon shoes.

In dry canyons I have been fine with pretty much any kind of hiking shoe. I'm not very picky in this regard as I don't require ankle support or anything that is super comfortable. I went through a 6 month phase where I was hiking the Wasatch mountains barefoot so for me the less support the better.

For wet canyons it's a completely different story for me. I only have ever used the 5.10 Canyoneers and I have been looking for a replacement for some time. To be honest, I really don't like them. They are very bulky and in my experience have been difficult to comfortably strap them to my feet with neoprene socks on.

My biggest factors in wet canyons are traction and comfort. For this I will probably go with the Five Ten Savants.

[david_mcnay]

I have been using Savants for the past year on recommendations from a few people, and I like them quite a bit. I seam sealed the stitching and I think that helps a lot, but the mesh has started to wear through. Same sole as the Canyoneers, so great traction. I use mine pretty much any time I'm hiking on slickrock as well. They do suck the sand in, but anything with mesh or holes is going to do that. I just appreciate the traction, and not so bright as Canyoneers. I've also think they have better padding in the foot bed than the Canyoneers. When this pair wears out I'll get another pair.

[jeflevin]

I have some Savants that I've been pretty happy with after taking them to a shoe store and having some leather sewn over the outside mesh, which tends to wear very quick. Recently though, I've been using the Five Ten Guide Tennie, which I like even better....very comfortable and better traction than the Savants.

[ajhump]

Hi there,

I'm a commercial canyon guide in New Zealand, and I've got quite a bit of experience with a lot of different types of shoes. Our canyons are all Class C, with algae that is extremely slippery. In addition the canyons are schist, with many sharp quartz crystals. We run trips nearly every day of the season, and we are very hard on shoes. Here's what I've found:

1) Simple Dive Boots (Brands: Camaro and Pro Dive). Dive boots are often equipped with a very soft, rubber sole which allows for very good traction. Arguably, they have the best traction in our slippery canyons. In addition, they are made with 5mm neoprene, so when socks are added, they are very warm in our cold canyons. However, the soles are normally quite thin, so if you're quite aggressive like me, then you'll end up with loads of stone bruises. Also, if the neoprene isn't well protected by additional rubber, you'll trash them pretty quicklky. Nonetheless, they're cheap!

2) Camaro Canyon Shoes. You'd think that a fine company like Camaro, with it's strong Austrian Canyoning support, would make a nice shoe. However, I found that these shoes were pretty shit. They do have a nice, thick sole, but it has virtually no traction. I slipped all over the place. Not to mention the upper neoprene is not well protected, and I tore holes in them within a month. Lastly, the bungy used to cinch the shoes around the ankle exploded within a week.

3) Adidas Canyoning Shoe. Yes, Adidas does still make a canyoning shoe. (Which poor American is wondering why I'm using the term "canyoning?") They are hard to find, but my Austrian counterparts, who are on the Adidas Canyoning team, still wear them regularly. They have thick soles with a sort of rough felt on the bottom. The felt does offer significant traction, especially compared to rubbers, since rubber gets less sticky when it's cold. Also, they are lace-ups, which I think is the way to go with canyon shoes! Less bulk and easily replaceable. Downside, good luck gettting a pair outside of Austria.

4) 5.10 Canyoneers. We all know this shoe, and this is what I now use. It's hard to beat the climbing rubber on the bottom of these shoes. It definitely offers a lot confidence when running around. Also, the soles are thick for jumping from rock to rock. I agree with Badfish about these being too bulky. Bulky and little ankle support. One of my co-guides badly sprung her ankle with these shoes. Also, the buckles are terrible! They are always the first to break on these shoes. I broke mine the second day I had them, lol. Once broken, it can be hard to repair them (I got lucky, and was able use a nail to replace the tab). If you wear neoprene socks with them, size up and get new socks. These shoes flush easily and wearing old neoprene is a sure way to lose feeling in your feet.

Ideally, I think a canyon shoe should have a nice sole, ankle support, climbing rubber, and laces (Maybe rated laces that could be used as a prussik in an emergency?). And I'd give anything for a shoe to have some edging ability for those of us with a climbing background.

Cheers,
Andrew Humphreys
Senior Guide
Canyoning.co.nz

[Sierra Silence]

5.10 Exum, the search is over. Comfortable, ankle protection, sticks to any rock. Not much water drainage, but not too heavy when wet.

[beadysee]

Methinks you meant the La Sportiva Exum. Apparently the Exum River (my fav for sure) has been discontinued. Some still floating around in close outs at a good price.

Never understood why folks would rent a very poorly fitting shoe (ala the 5.10 canyoneer) instead of just wearing a well broken in running shoe (approach shoe, hiking shoe, whatever). Is it partly that one needs to have on the proper "uniform"?

[david_mcnay]

The 5.10 really does have a whole lot more traction than a running shoe or hiking boot. Try them and you'll see. Approach shoes are supposed to have some good traction - never tried them myself. But fit and comfort is why I go with the 5.10 Savants. They are lace-ups, so would even work in NZ. Have heard good things about the Exum River, sadly. Hopefully they'll come back.

[Sierra Silence]

Methinks you meant the La Sportiva Exum.

Nope, 5.10 Exum Guide shoe:
http://fiveten.com/products/footwear-detail/46-exum-guide-tan

[beadysee]

Yeah, have a pair of 5.10 Canyoneers. Good traction, but, no better than most any of the sticky rubber type approach shoes out there, and, a super clunky beast not comfy for longer mileage for my feet, at least. I much prefer a lace up.

[beadysee]

Ahh, have seen those. No drainage to speak of. Not a bad lookin' shoe, though. Bet they are comfy. Look great.

I have an old pair of the long discontinued Nike Air Exums. Great shoes. As were the Teewinot II's (which morphed into the Cindercone?). Fairly sticky rubber, but, built like a trail running shoe. Kind of popular in the Tetons for awhile (methinks they outfitted the guides up there with them).

Can't have enough shoes...!

[smorga]

I’ve just completed my latest experiment involving Five Ten Savants. I’ve have been applying different compounds to the mesh that wears out fast near the front of the shoe. The latest compound, Loctite Polyurethane Flashing Sealant, survived three days in the tight North Wash canyons and appears to have held tight and protected the mesh. The Polyurethane cures to a semi-hard rubbery texture. In the past I have tried ShoeGoo, SealStuff and others with limited success.
Added plus – you can waterproof your roof vents and roof jacks with the left over. :D

Steve Morga
Intrepid Adventure Sports (http://IntrepidAdventureSports.com)
Technical Canyoneering Training

[jeflevin]

Another option, which has worked well for me, is to have a shoe repair shop sew a strip of leather over the mesh.

[agostinone]

With spring coming up I thought I'd start shopping for some new shoes. I've held out on getting a pair of 5.10 canyoneers since I've heard that the arch support and fore foot comfort are poor (these are features that are very important to me--I've learned the hard way from daily runs the last couple of decades years)

While I was over at the Five Ten site and I see that they are selling "Stealth Paint". Sounds like it is a way to beef up the mesh/weak spots on shoes. Anyone have experience with this stuff?

"Five Ten® has taken its recycled Stealth® 'Green' rubber and developed a super-sticky easy-to-use rubber paint for consumer use. Stealth® Paint™ can be applied at home or in the field. It sticks to any shoe surface (leather synthetic rubber) and adds instant durability and friction."

[willisj]

I know what you are saying about the canyoneers. Though I have recently picked up the new SARs. One option to think about are the 5-10 Camp four or exum Guide if you want more ankle support. They have basically the same outer sole, though with a slightly different stealth rubber.

If you mostly do dry canyons these work extremely well. The exum guide at least does well in wet canyons as well. I took a pair of the guides through Eaton Canyon (3C III), a couple weeks ago and they worked well in the canyon, and look like they took the abuse of the water ok too. We will see in the long run how they hold up.

In the, I bought them so you don't have spirit, the NRS boots have really bad traction in the water. Other non-traditional things I have tried: Fly fishermans boots: Tried both Korkers and Cloudveil. Both have Stealth soles, that said for some reason the Cloudveils had crappy traction. The Korkers worked extremely well, but had a block toe that did make climbing in them a bit interesting. The korkers were my go to boot for wet canyons unit I got the 5-10 guides. That said they like the canyoneers/SAR don't have good arch support.

All that said I still miss my Vasque GTX approach boots, stealth rubber, light, and great to climb in. Unfortunately they were not very durable and tended to self descruct after 15 or so canyons, which is probably why Vasque stopped making them.

[sonnylawrence]

I just got off a 30 day trip in the Grand Canyon. Took my brand new SAR shoes. They feel stiffer than the Canyoneer II's. I believe they did not smear as well. The trade off will be if they hold up better. We will see.

[ajhump]

You'll need your facebook account for this one, but hopefully it'll still work. This is one of those deals where I probably shouldn't say too much, so let the pic speak for itself.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1494623184537&set=a.1494619544446.55590.1802817069&theater