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rcwild
04-03-2009, 11:06 AM
Over the past weekend Rick Green and I removed the piton at the final rappel in Egypt 1. Rick told me it once had a note attached to it asking that it not be removed because it would be needed as an anchor the following weekend. Assuming the person who wrote the note was concerned about his group's safety if the piton was removed. He should have been concerned about his group's safety using it. It was very poorly placed.

Now, we have all encountered "good" bad anchors. Anchors that were poorly placed, but continue to be used and hold. But we need to be careful. A "good" bad anchor will become a bad bad anchor sooner or later.

Wishing I took a before photo so we could use this as a scenario, but I didn't so we'll have to rely on my descriptions.

Pitons come in a variety of types. Two types are pictured in the illustration below. The one we removed was an angle. Angles should be placed so the edges are in opposition to the back. The piton in E1 was placed so the edges were in opposition to each other. This placement can make it easier for the piton to roll out. As the piton is driven, the sides also flex in a bit, making the piton a bit spring loaded.

The piton was also much too long for the crack it was placed in. For a good placement, the piton should slide into the crack on it's own about 75% of its length, then tapped with a hammer to set it. The E1 piton was about six inches long and driven in less than 1.5 inches. The person who placed it should have used a much smaller piton or gone crack shopping -- for a deeper crack suitable for the long piton.

The major issue using a piton that is too long is leverage. See the illustration for two examples. The top placement is textbook; piton driven all the way to the eye. Okay to use the eye. The middle placement couldn't be driven in all the way, so a sling is tied around the piton against the rock to reduce leverage. The E1 piton extended 4-5 inches out from the rock, but had a rapide in the eye with webbing threaded through the rapide. Too much leverage.

The bottom placement does not relate to this situation, but illustrates using a sling to improve the direction of pull on a piton. Pitons should be loaded in sheer (90 degrees), not in tension (straight out).

Removing the E1 piton was fairly effortless. A couple taps with a rock, then a tug with an improvised funkness device.

Our group had no problem getting down the rappel with a human anchor who received a thigh belay from the bottom.

rcwild
04-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Before photo, courtesy of Wyoming Dave ...

Edited by Rich on 4 Apr. Some notes about the photo.

Piton was on canyon right, approximately 30 feet up canyon from the rappel. In the photo, the webbing is hanging free; not under tension. When under tension the webbing will be pulled to the left, almost horizontal. On the plus side ... there would have been quite a bit of rope-rock friction between the piton and the rappel.

Higher in the crack it was deeper. A better placement for the long piton may have been possible.

dancrev
04-04-2009, 02:06 AM
The bottom placement does not relate to this situation, but illustrates using a sling to improve the direction of pull on a piton. Pitons should be loaded in sheer (90 degrees), not in tension (straight out).
Regarding the non-germane example. I don't know if I would use one like that third placement (bottom one). Based on the direction of pull where the cord is attached, the force on the piton is mostly outward to the left - in tension. In that case I would prefer the crack have some angle to it, instead of being horizontal as in the figure, to make the load more shear.

Regarding the E1 placement, it looks like you did humanity a service by removing it! I have never been down there, but from the photo I cannot imagine that I would have used that particular anchor. Were there any signs of bending from the leverage of load?

rcwild
04-04-2009, 07:44 AM
Regarding the non-germane example. I don't know if I would use one like that third placement (bottom one). Based on the direction of pull where the cord is attached, the force on the piton is mostly outward to the left - in tension. In that case I would prefer the crack have some angle to it, instead of being horizontal as in the figure, to make the load more shear.

The illustrations are from that book. The caption for this particular piton placement is about it being less than ideal (for the reasons you stated), but gaining benefit from the friction gain with the webbing making the 90-degree bend.


Regarding the E1 placement, it looks like you did humanity a service by removing it! I have never been down there, but from the photo I cannot imagine that I would have used that particular anchor. Were there any signs of bending from the leverage of load?

IF the E1 piton was placed with edges opposing the back, we may have left it. Would have removed the rapide and fixed the webbing around the piton with a slip knot closer to the rock.

We discussed using it, backed up with meat to test it. Maybe send the lightest guy down last after it was tested, etc. The decision to remove it was in part based on setting an example for others. Word gets out that Rick and Rich used it, so this must be an example of a good piton placement. But it was an example of a very poorly placed piton.

I have the same approach about bolts. I am not anti-bolt or anti-piton. I am anti stupid bolt/piton and anti unsafe bolt/piton.

mountain man
04-04-2009, 11:05 AM
Angles should be placed so the edges are in opposition to the back. The piton in E1 was placed so the edges were in opposition to each other. This placement can make it easier for the piton to roll out. As the piton is driven, the sides also flex in a bit, making the piton a bit spring loaded.

Mind explaining edges in opposition to the back. Just trying to learn. :popcorn:

rcwild
04-04-2009, 01:12 PM
How 'bout another illustration ...

mountain man
04-04-2009, 03:22 PM
Thanks Rich. The second image was very helpful

rcwild
04-04-2009, 04:25 PM
Thanks Rich. The second image was very helpful

No problem, Shaun. It should be obvious from the illustration that the wrong way is not very stable.

mountain man
04-05-2009, 02:48 PM
No problem, Shaun. It should be obvious from the illustration that the wrong way is not very stable.

Yes it is. Had I seen this anchor and not seen the illustartion even I would have know it was not stable.