Newbie Safe Zone?

[rcwild]

A few days ago polvalt set up a social group for newbies, which I deleted. I don't think the social group feature should be used for this for a variety of reasons. However, he may have had a good idea regarding establishing an area where newbies feel less intimidated about posting questions and participating in our forums.

Posting this to solicit ideas. Is it necessary? How can it best be implemented? A new section within the forums titled, "Newbie Safe Zone"? Use of a "Newbie Friendly" prefix for threads within the Technical Canyoneering section?

Or do some of us old farts just need a kick in the butt every time our behavior intimidates anyone?

[Dwayne27]

I dont think the segregation is a good idea... seems to me that the people asking questions would want the experienced folks to be reading their posts and answering the questions. And in most cases, anyone asking any questions, other people may have those same questions.

[polvalt]

After creating that group, I did have second thoughts about the usefulness of a social group for such purposes. However, I still feel (as a newbie myself) that there is an overwhelming amount of information in these forums and it can be intimidating. I have found it difficult to find information on basic skills and gear for those of us who only have a couple of canyons under our belts. When I started, I took a course at Z.A.C. and felt really comfortable with the skills I learned. After I got home, I found myself second guessing what I thought I knew and turned to the forum for a refresher. However, when wading through all the posts, I felt somewhat overwhelmed with info and techniques not suitable for us beginners. I know that the skills workshops will be helpful and going with people who are more experienced will help way more than anything you can learn from reading a forum.

In response to Rich's post, perhaps it would be helpful if newbies could preface the title of their thread with something acknowledging that their question is a beginner question. If that were the case, those more experienced canyoneers could reply (hopefully) with newbie friendly information.

[JDClery]

I can understand how you feel, when I first came to this forum I also found it a bit intimidating. There is a lot of information on the site as well as a experience people discussing more advanced techniques. I didn't want to be the newbie dumbing things down with basic questions.

Having a prefix option stating it's a newbie or beginner topic I think is a good idea, sort of labeling topics that beginners may find interesting.

I think most of us are more than happy to answer basic questions, I know I am. I just want to make sure beginners are not using the internet as a substitute for proper training and I'm not contributing to someone getting into trouble going out without the skills needed to safely go canyoneering.

[oldno7]

Great idea's, I hope we can get a section set up for this.

[kuper]

I have only been canyoneering just over a year, I have asked some very basic questions here and have always found the answers to be friendly and very helpful
jsut my .02

[Rocketman]

Perhaps what is needed is to create subsection areas within the Technical Canyoneering section. Say something like: scenarios, beginner techniques and gear, advanced techniques and gear, new gear, etc. From the nature of what we do, this is by far the most popular topic area, so there is a lot of material. This could help new folks navigate through it all.

[moab mark]

Thats an excellent idea.

Mark

[woadams123]

As a newb, here's my 2 cents worth. Rich, Kurt, Jim and other canyon leaders do not seem to be intimidating to me, rather the opposite. Friendly and very forthcoming with possibilities (tools for the toolbox). It seems to me that the popularity of canyoning is growing exponentially. It also seems that the dangers of it, even in mild canyons are not emphasized enough. In other words, it seems to be an awareness issue. In talking with several other people who like to do canyons, I ask them if they know about the ACA. I have heard answers like, yes - I go there when I want technical information but go to nnn.com most often because I am looking for beta. I have also heard, it took the class at REI - I'm okay to do canyons. With the growth of many new canyoneering communities, could the ACA look to change its theme from America's Canyoneering Community to America's Canyoneering Education Community?

*If* this is an awareness problem, here are a few ideas to start some brainstorming:
1. I believe Rich is right on track with stepping up the canyon leader program.
2. Zions backcountry could elevate awareness when you get a permit for subway, mystery, pinecreek, etc. by asking if the individual is aware of the ACA and that we provide very inexpensive training and education.
3. Ask other popular canyoning websites to increase visibility of the dangers and refer people to the ACA site to sign up for canyoning training/rondys.
4. Ask other canyoning websites to include a link to a minimum skills check list per canyon rating? This could have negative implications tho.
5. Offer a list of good books on the subject. My favorite is Self-Rescue by David J. Fasulo - A Falcon Guide. Then stress that hands-on skills are important when something goes wrong.
6. Have the BYU canyoning class stress the importance of ongoing education and the ACA.
7. Make visible a list of canyoning accidents - the climbing community has a book dedicated to this and a short synopsis of what went wrong. Example: The mistake of ppl rappeling off the end of a rope is very common. An exum guide I met said she had lost a very experienced climbing friend that way.
8. Encourage ACA members and folks on other forums (egos aside) to raise awareness and encourage participation in ACA training events.
9. Partner with REI, IME and Black Diamond to create point-of-sale signage talking about ACA, vision and mission.
I hope that others will contribute their ideas. A little awareness and training could save someone's life.

[rcwild]

I set up a sub-forum called Newbie Zone in the Technical Canyoneering section.

Still having reservations. Where is the line drawn between a topic that belongs in the Newbie Zone and a topic that belongs in the main Technical Canyoneering section?

Other options could include: (1) creating a prefix for threads in main section that include information relevant to newbies, (2) creating a sticky thread that includes an index to threads that include information relevant to newbies, (3) some combination thereof.

Talk to me.

[Dwayne27]

I think a prefix would be better than a sub forum. Like you said, where is the line? And when does someone officially become not a newbie? After X number of canyons? So many classes? A question is a question. And it is good for anyone to review or respond, or just read along to brush up...

[Rocketman]

Let's try it. If it gets a lot of action, it's working. If not, ditch it.
I've seen a similar format work well on some the 4x4 pages.

[rcwild]

I think a prefix would be better than a sub forum. Like you said, where is the line? And when does someone officially become not a newbie? After X number of canyons? So many classes? A question is a question. And it is good for anyone to review or respond, or just read along to brush up...

Good points, Devin. Already seeing a thread about dry bag durability that will be of interest to everyone, not just newbies.


Let's try it. If it gets a lot of action, it's working. If not, ditch it.

If we have users with a bit of time on their hands ... Do some searches for existing threads that may be of interest to newbies. Maybe some basic gear information, etc. Point me to the thread(s) and I will move them to this newbie zone.