Ascending on 8mm Canyon Pro

[sonnylawrence]

Rich's and my personal taste in canyon gear seem to run in opposite directions - this is just an example of that. But we both agree that each canyoneer should find a device that works for them, and learn how to use it backwards and forwards.

Tom


This brings up a question: rappeling backwards. What are suggestions for the preferred devices/knots/cordage for ascending Bluewater Canyon Pro?

[ratagonia]

This brings up a question: rappeling backwards. What are suggestions for the preferred devices/knots/cordage for ascending Bluewater Canyon Pro?

There are a wide variety of tools for climbing ropes, many of which will even work on a small, slippery cord like the BW Canyon Pro.

First off, everyone should know the bachman knot (or one of it's equivalents). Here's a good website: http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/prusik.htm

The bachman knot works well using slings rather than round cord, and seems to work best with Spectra slings. It also works on two strands at the same time - a good trick to have available.

A lot of the answer to your question depends on how much? Planned or emergency?

If I am planning on "jugging out", I bring some small ascenders like the Petzl Basic, Petzl Croll, or Petzl Pantin. I personally like the Pantin, but they are not for everybody. There's one somewhere in a canyon near Lake Powell...

http://tinyurl.com/doygq I don't use the foot straps, just the hardware.

If I plan on doing a LOT of jugging, then I would bring my handled ascenders. I also like the Petzl Mini-Traxion

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/view_product.php?product=PZP07

but it is kind of heavy.

For emergencies, I carry my Pantins most of the time, and enough slings to rig Bachman knots all the time.

Tom

[sonnylawrence]

Tom, in the link to Gary's site. He shows pictures of the Pantins attached to the feet. You said you do not use Petzl's straps. How do you rig the Pantins?

Gary thinks they are lemons. What do you think their advantage is? Are they significantly different than the Petzl Basic?

[rcwild]

If I plan on doing a LOT of jugging, then I would bring my handled ascenders. I also like the Petzl Mini-Traxion

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/view_product.php?product=PZP07

Mini Traxion is also available through the Mountain Shop's online store. Better price and ACA members receive a 10-15% discount.

http://www.canyoneeringgear.com/store/view_product.php?product=PETRN3CH2

[rcwild]

No doubt ... the popularity of Canyon Pro has created a number of challenges. When Charly and I lobbied BlueWater to make a pro guide/rescue rope, our intent was to have a compact lightweight rope to carry as a back-up and for rescues. Didn't realize it would become so popular as a primary rope.

I always carry a prussik or two. I've switched from 7mm to 6mm because thin cord works better on thin ropes. I also carry a 48" Spectra runner. Everyone should know how to tie a prussik hitch for a variety of applications, but for ascending I prefer Bachman and Klemheist.

I also carry a Shunt and a Tibloc 100% of the time. Shunt has many uses besides ascending that make it worth carrying, even though it does not work well for ascending on a single strand of 8mm. Tibloc also has other uses. It will work on 8mm as long as you use a thick carabiner.

When I know I will be ascending a long distance (i.e. to exit the canyon), I carry: one handled Petzl ascender, Petzl Croll with Torse strap, Metolius adjustable foot strap. I've only owned this rig for a few months and haven't tried it on Canyon Pro yet, but it is very efficient on 9.2mm Canyon.

Also switched my valdotain because of 8mm rope popularity. Normal 10mm with two core strands removed works well on 9mm+. Even works on double strand 8mm. Not secure enough on single strand 8mm. I've been experimenting with BlueWater's 8mm dynamic prussik cord and it works well.

During recent Canyon Rescue course, Karl "Pappy" Olsen had some old 9mm climbing rope. It felt mushy, even without removing any core strands, so we cut a few valdotains from it. They worked amazingly well.

[ratagonia]

Tom, in the link to Gary's site. He shows pictures of the Pantins attached to the feet. You said you do not use Petzl's straps. How do you rig the Pantins?

Gary thinks they are lemons. What do you think their advantage is? Are they significantly different than the Petzl Basic?

I use the Pantin as an ascender. It is about half the weight and bulk of a Petzl Basic.

Gary tested it for what it was designed for - as a foot unit. And did not like it - that's one reason I linked to his website, rather than another. He had problems with it flicking off the rope.

When used as an ascender, (in canyoneer-climbing mode, as either the waist ascender or the hand/foot ascender) the carabiner blocks the cam from opening, so that the rope 'cannot' come out. (Cannot = is not likely to. You must examine this for the rope you are using, and make sure it is going to work for you. Your mileage may vary).

Tom

[hank_moon]

A note about the Pantin:

The Pantin is not PPE and should not be considered a secure attachment to the rope as it lacks certain safety features present in "standard" ascenders. It is designed to be used on the right foot only, in conjunction with ascenders that are rated as PPE. It has no intrinsic safety mechanism to keep it on the rope and its rated strength is far below than the requirement of the EN standard for ascenders. The Pantin is NOT recommended for use as a normal ascender.

[sonnylawrence]

Clarification: PPE stands for Personal Protective Equipment