Guess the Outcome

[rcwild]

Here's a scenario. True story. You have two tasks; (1) suggest errors made and (2) guess the outcome.


University group in Australia doing a canyon in early spring. Most experienced guy went first. Second most experienced guy went second. Second guy was using an autoblock while rappelling in a waterfall. Remainder of group (at the top) all very inexperienced canyoners.

[kentonharman]

It is hard to determine if the question is rhetorical, but I’ll play.

1.) Second most qualified should have gone first, providing a belay from the bottom (and eliminating the need for an autoblock on anyone else). The most qualified should have gone last, ensuring the inexperienced members got onto the rope safely and operating the contingency anchor if anyone else needed it.

Mistakes made: sequencing, autoblock in C canyon, (possible lack of a contengency anchor, or lack of knowledge on when to use it).

2.) The experienced person got stuck on the rope and couldn’t release the autoblock. The people at top didn’t know what to do. The person at bottom couldn’t do anything. The canyoneer drowned on the rope while in the waterfall.

[rcwild]

It is hard to determine if the question is rhetorical, but I’ll play.

1.) Second most qualified should have gone first, providing a belay from the bottom (and eliminating the need for an autoblock on anyone else). The most qualified should have gone last, ensuring the inexperienced members got onto the rope safely and operating the contingency anchor if anyone else needed it.

Mistakes made: sequencing, autoblock in C canyon, (possible lack of a contengency anchor, or lack of knowledge on when to use it).

2.) The experienced person got stuck on the rope and couldn’t release the autoblock. The people at top didn’t know what to do. The person at bottom couldn’t do anything. The canyoneer drowned on the rope while in the waterfall.


Not rhetorical. Normally we would let this ride for awhile to get more responses, but you nailed most of it.

You are spot on regarding sequencing. They left inexperienced people alone at the top. The people at the top could not see any part of the rope after it disappeared over the edge. They saw the first guy down walk away from the base of the rappel. After the second guy was on rope for a disturbingly long period of time, they saw the first guy run back to the base of the rappel. No one at the top knew what to do. Someone went for help; the others spent the night where they were. SAR arrived the next day and found the rope still under tension.

The second guy down had become stuck on the rope. The first guy down ran back to the rope and ascended up from the bottom to try to help. He also became stuck. Both guys died of hypothermia hanging on the rope in the waterfall.

[brucefrombryce]

YUK!

[yyakk7]

So what could/should they have done at the point where the two people are stuck on the rope?

[rcwild]

So what could/should they have done at the point where the two people are stuck on the rope?

It depends ...

If they had rigged releasable and if someone on top knew how to release and lower, lives could have been saved.

If they did not rig releasable and/or no one on top knew how to release and lower, other rescue options would include cut and lower (requires rescue rope and skill), pick-off (requires rescue rope and skill), balancier (can be done on tensioned rope, but requires more skill) or haul (requires extra material and skill).

Basically, decisions made up front dramatically limit contingency options.

[Parker]

I am curious about the balancier. How is that done?

[rcwild]

I am curious about the balancier. How is that done?

Hmmm ... You're asking a guy who makes his living as an instructor to give you more of his secrets? :spank:

Try a search first. I think it was discussed on the forums a couple years ago.

I hesitate attempting to teach it on a forum. During rescue courses I have done quite a few rescues for students who slipped up doing the balancier.

[Fire Rescue]

It depends ...

If they had rigged releasable and if someone on top knew how to release and lower, lives could have been saved.

If they did not rig releasable and/or no one on top knew how to release and lower, other rescue options would include cut and lower (requires rescue rope and skill), pick-off (requires rescue rope and skill), balancier (can be done on tensioned rope, but requires more skill) or haul (requires extra material and skill).

Basically, decisions made up front dramatically limit contingency options.

Ha...the pick off method was the first thing that popped into my head.

Also, had they had a rigging plate (even if they didn't) they could have set up an LRH and transferred the rappelling rope to it (if they had extra rope, and knew how to make it). Then they could have lowered both stuck guys to safety.

...So many ways pop into my head for this one lol.

The one thing that really gets me is how inexperienced the "experienced" guys were. You think they'd know better...it's really a shame.

[rcwild]

Also, had they had a rigging plate (even if they didn't) they could have set up an LRH and transferred the rappelling rope to it (if they had extra rope, and knew how to make it). Then they could have lowered both stuck guys to safety.

You need to come out here for a course. The releasable systems we teach make load releasing hitches, rigging plates, etc. unnecessary.

Simple rule -- If anyone is going to use a self-belay, rig releasable.

[Fire Rescue]

You need to come out here for a course. The releasable systems we teach make load releasing hitches, rigging plates, etc. unnecessary.

Simple rule -- If anyone is going to use a self-belay, rig releasable.

Haha...I like the sound of tht...And dnt worry I do plan on taking a few courses from you...not sure wen just yet.

[Ruben Perez]

Something like that occurred to one friend of mine about 20 year ago. I was not with them, but certainly I would had been of little or no help back then, I did not know much about canyoneering and rescue. They were in a very cold canyon (frequently frozen) in Popocatepetl, one of the high volcanoes close to Mexico City. The last guy on rappel (very unexperienced) got stuck under a waterfall, my friend jugged to him getting stuck aswell. They both died of hypothermia only some 12 ft above the floor.
Bottom line.. this things happen, I really suggest everyone take advanced and rescue training and keep practicing. You never know when you´ll need the skills.

[dancrev]

They both died of hypothermia only some 12 ft above the floor.
Only 12 feet above the deck, I think I would have cut the rope if death was upon me.

I have never been in a situation of hypothermia... is the victim aware and able to predict how much longer he/she may have left? Or does it put you in a state where there is no feeling or awareness of the situation? In that case, drastic worst case solutions like cutting the rope may not even creep into mind.

[vlrocco]

Only 12 feet above the deck, I think I would have cut the rope if death was upon me..

I don't think you said why they were stuck but if the first guy had a knife he could have cut the autoblock, same for would be rescuer.:worried:

[rcwild]

Only 12 feet above the deck, I think I would have cut the rope if death was upon me.

I have never been in a situation of hypothermia... is the victim aware and able to predict how much longer he/she may have left? Or does it put you in a state where there is no feeling or awareness of the situation? In that case, drastic worst case solutions like cutting the rope may not even creep into mind.

Evolutionary Onion (http://www.medicalofficer.net/index_files/Evolutionary_Onion.htm)

When blood flow (oxygen) to the brain is compromised, the brain starts shutting down higher functions, like logic, to focus the oxygen on survival needs, like keeping the heart and lungs working. Cold can slow down your heart rate, thus compromising the blood flow. Insufficient water intake can also compromise blood flow.

Hypothermia is deadly because it can sneak up on you. As the symptoms set in (shivering and the "umbles" - stumbles, mumbles, grumbles) it may already be too late for us to recognize them in ourselves. Always important for us to keep an eye on our partners and start treating immediately.

[Rocketman]

It depends ...
If they did not rig releasable and/or no one on top knew how to release and lower, other rescue options would include cut and lower (requires rescue rope and skill), pick-off (requires rescue rope and skill), balancier (can be done on tensioned rope, but requires more skill) or haul (requires extra material and skill).


I'm not sure why a balancier would be any different from a standard "pulley style" pick-off here. Either way you are descending a tensioned rope with a Valdy and them rerigging for a standard tandem rappel after you get the other person on to your system.

Keith

[rcwild]

I'm not sure why a balancier would be any different from a standard "pulley style" pick-off here. Either way you are descending a tensioned rope with a Valdy and them rerigging for a standard tandem rappel after you get the other person on to your system.

Just semantics, Keith. I define a pick-off as the rescuer either rappelling or being lowered on a separate rope; balancier as coming down on the tensioned rope, whether using counter-weight or mechanical advantage to lift the subject.

[Ruben Perez]

Only 12 feet above the deck, I think I would have cut the rope if death was upon me.

I have never been in a situation of hypothermia... is the victim aware and able to predict how much longer he/she may have left? Or does it put you in a state where there is no feeling or awareness of the situation? In that case, drastic worst case solutions like cutting the rope may not even creep into mind.

Besides what Rich said, They got hypothermic very fast due to the convection heat transfer with the almost frozen water flowing over them. They did not have wetsuits wich for us sounds stupid now, but back in 1987 we were very "machos" which is the cause of many accidents.
On the other hand the rest of the group did not realize their partners were in real trouble and were just playing around. So when they desided to climb the rope and cut it, just some 15 minutes later, it was too late.

[yyakk7]

It looks like a good time to get one of those Bear Claw knives and get some rescue training. Maybe Phoenix, March 2010 for the training. From the :teacher:

[joshleavitt]

I am curious how in both of these situations the would-be rescuer ended up stuck. Shouldn't they have been able to rig for descent and get off rope once they determined they were not going to be able to free the rappeller?

[dancrev]

Maybe Phoenix, March 2010 for the training.

or... Phoenix, December 3-6, 2009 :2thumbs:

[rcwild]

I am curious how in both of these situations the would-be rescuer ended up stuck. Shouldn't they have been able to rig for descent and get off rope once they determined they were not going to be able to free the rappeller?

Can only speculate. We do teach bottom-up rescues. They can be pretty complicated. Going through the exercise is enough to convince most people to give more thought to sequencing, rig releasable, etc.

The process involves ascending up below the subject. It is best to pass them so you can do the rescue from above. I have seen people try to do it from below or side-by-side and burn themselves out before making any progress. I have also seen people get above the subject, then realize they didn't bring appropriate gear or they can't figure out how to get on rappel now that they are up on the tensioned part of the rope.

Exhaustion, followed by hypothermia, followed by death.

[ewestesen]

I have also seen people get above the subject, then realize they didn't bring appropriate gear or they can't figure out how to get on rappel now that they are up on the tensioned part of the rope.


Assuming you knew how to use it and had it with you, a VT prusik would be a pretty handy tool once you were above the subject no?

[brucefrombryce]

One option not mentioned: the inexperienced people knew there was a problem i.e. went for help, therefore the last resort would be to cut the rope from above IF they had a knife. Drastic but then again it might have saved one life.

Interesting in that on our last day of our advanced rescue course one of our group of three got his foot stuck in a rock during the rappel through the waterfall in Cibeque (sic). Don, the other group member, was on the rope and went just over the edge to provide assistance when he looked down and saw that the person stuck has self extricated himself. Scary stuff.