Big Tujunga Ybarra/Vogel

[desertresident]

Deleted - post was re:exploring Ybarra canyon

[Zarka]

Sounds right:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796224&e=386693&s=50&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
Vogel is right across from the Vogel Flat Stonyvale picnic area and Ybarra comes out between Wildwood & Camp Ybarra.

I'm curious how you went up to look at Vogel. You mean you stayed near the stream and didn't take the Fox/Condor peak trail? Did you take a trail to look at Ybarra, or just go upstream? Can you describe it using marks that show up on the topo map?

Last week we walked up to see what we could see from the Fox/Condor trail and found that Fusier canyon is an easy drop in in a few locations, but might lead to some wicked, PO ridden long bushwack in some sections and not much steepness, but looks good in others.

The upper part of Fusier canyon looks quite spectacular (we went to the base of a very nice 60 foot waterfall at about 3300 ft where the trail crosses the stream),
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34.3014&lon=-118.1982&s=50&size=l&symshow=n&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25
but you'd have to hike almost all the way to Fox peak (4.5 miles and 2000 ft gain, just to get to the top and almost as far a walk out) drop in at about 4200 ft. The hike out though would be easy since it would drop you onto the same trail you took in, at about 3300 ft.

The lower part of Fusier as I mentioned looks too shallow, but could lead to a way into Breakneck by hiking down to 2860 ft and then switchback up the bench between the two canyons.

On the other hand, after doing the upper part, you could bypass the long shallow section, take the trail back down to the "west fork" tributary that feeds fusier, and take it down to Big Tujunga Road, but it looks like you'd miss the nice curvy section that probably has falls at
34.2915°N, 118.2088°W

[desertresident]

Deleted..post was re:exploring Ybarra canyon.

Photos of lower Ybarra falls from the west rim and general area

[desertresident]

post was re:exploring Ybarra canyon

[desertresident]

tried to ascend as previously mentioned...no go somewhere above 150 ft high off the trail..and took a few self-arrest slides on the way back the slope is out of control. Only 2 ways now...one is a climb(I hate doing climbs, but its not that high..maybe 40 ft at 5.4 max with possible tree anchors) the other is to take the trail all the way to Fox and descend the canyon not knowing what will be encountered.

Current conditions: recent use including graffiti(not too bad) on the lower waterfall of the main canyon....trail to waterfall was maintained for a surprise....luckily the people who are using it are causing significant erosion especially at the entrance, so what was a step down climb is now getting there in steepness.

West fork: some water, but hardly any...disappears in narrows, so west fork appears dry, perhaps a recent landslide there, well now that its dry nobody will be interested.

[desertresident]

Fox-Condor only provides possible drop in to east fork and to sum that fork up, I hope you have your will ready.

[desertresident]

This is one canyon that is the more water the better, unfortunately it didnt rain much up here. Initially, I was thinking to introduce it to people during the winter, but there is still too much left to do really. So instead, some photos, although they didnt turn out to well from the onetime use no flash camera, especially after scanning them.

Basically, the hike in is through a wash, with plenty of trails, and a little trash & graffiti now. In 10 mins, I passed by a waterfall on the left, whose height is obscured by some trees. This photo, right at the waterfall(not pictured), shows the trail(creek) as it bounds down the hard rock.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/Entrance.jpg

At about 30 mins, I encountered the first waterfall an approx 40 fter that crashes into a orange brown shallow pool(very similar in color to upper Emerald pool in Zion)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YWaterfall1.jpg

OK, camera has no flash, but it was waterproof at least. Then I bypassed the waterfall and took a look-see from the top, which involves a small downclimb into a 5.5 ft pool. Going upstream, pondering a side canyon that has a nice dry mossy waterfall, where the water no longer comes down the waterfall but instead comes straight out of the rock to the right of it. Next, went upstream, going up and around the pretty 8-10 fter, finally reaching the 2nd waterfall..25-30 ft?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YWaterfall2.jpg

Just for photography sake, upclimbed a hill to take a shot of
#2 from the side...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YWaterfall2a.jpg

So then bypassing this waterfall, leaving the canyon, progress ended with a view of the 3rd waterfall far below, which is a 25-50 fter estimate.

Continuing on, despite the roar of the 2 waterfalls(pretty close to each other), no doubt even nosier is the 4th waterfall, maybe you see it in the photo as it comes down the middle right of the photo. Perhaps 45ft? :confused: Nah, it is at least 4 times has high as that :D ...seriously.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YWaterfall4.jpg

Well, decided to turn back, coming back, checked out a side waterfall that falls into the main canyon....its clear sailing to the side canyon, but looking around there are a few minor cascades...this particular segment is option B.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YOptionB.jpg

Once in the side canyon, which is dry and then a small flow starts up, the rock granite thing starts, etc...and then

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YOptionBa.jpg

Confusing photo, but essentially first there is an approx 20 ft drop to a small platform, then over the edge, for a combined 110-120. Anchorage on this one is beyond what I know(theres no single big tree), but probably exsists.

[desertresident]

From the last point, uphill onto the top of the ridge, whcih gives a wide open view of Ybarra(left:side canyon, right:Ybarra).....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YbarraCyn.jpg

Then I entered the side canyon via a somewhat challenging downhill drop-in just upstream of the first noisy rap. From the side canyon back to the beginning('the semi-short variaition') is 9 wet rappels, the first 8 being no greater than approx 40 ft.

Upon entering the side canyon, the main route continues up the middle divider, then onto to some rocks that contour back to the main canyon,but the easy travel thus finally comes to a close and I just ducked as best as possible the brush for a few mintues, before the rim is reached again, and travel is on open rocks again.

Looking down canyon....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YbarraCyn2.jpg

Condor peak (barely visible on the right in the photo)...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/condorpk.jpg

Actually, one can also see Fox peak and also the Fox-Condor trail as well. The canyon still has 600 ft higher of route, however the water flow is a lot less, but a very clear slickrock type of route. Its just over a hill to the start of Vogel canyon.

The main canyon's waterfall noted earlier tops only 100 ft :( ending a lot earlier than I expected but still quite a waterfall...and then 4 more wet rappels with many downclimbs.. Of interest is a photogenic 25-30 ft waterslide ending in a deep pool in a rock cavern with a log perched up from the bottom of the pool...I listed that as a rap because one hits the water with huge impact.

I always yell out 'rope' on the cool last rap, as the canyon does get a few visitors to the lower waterfall.

One final note is it would be ideal to keep this canyon ghosted, or at least free of bolts. There are tree anchors for all raps(and close to them as well).

[Zarka]

It isn't clear to me where you're ascending to get into Ybarra. I've looked a bit and can't determine where you've been going up. I'd like to try it. Please identify with landmarks and/or map locations:

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796224&e=386693&s=50&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

In an earlier post you said "right" side. Can you please clarify with unambiguous (eg east or west, etc) description?

Will be looking into Breakneck canyon today (old trail to Fox, possible white oak canyon entrance) which is directly across the river from Mary Jane. Will post results later for Ken, who is doing MJ tomorrow.

[desertresident]

The first(of three) ascent is as follows:
34° 18.16'N, 118° 14.20'W (WGS84/NAD83), "east" side of canyon

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796400&e=386210&s=9.84&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

Opposite of this ascent is the ascent for Option B.

After passing the 1st landmark(waterfall on west side w/ creek flowing over rock), upstream, the 2nd landmark ,a low volume waterfall("Option B") on the west side, will be spotted. Vegetation on the west side of the canyon starts up then ends upsteam canyon as the canyon widens. The first ascent is up a rock/scree slope on the east side, helmet should be on. The first waterfall is just upstream, topo 2200 elevation, however it would be a waste of time just to make sure of the ascent location by seeing the waterfall as there is only 1 way up and it is more or less obvious. Care against erosion must be taken or that ascent up will be lost for good. Essentially, its a matter of going up and then occassionally contouring to the left(that would be north) a few times as the ascent dicates(especially early on) and if gets STEEP, someone is going the hard way. Eventually, a short crumbly rock section/climb is reached and I affixed a rope(full turn w/figure 8 knot to anchor against tree-super bomber)to be able to climb that short section. Then, after more up&left, the top is reached and the 1st waterfall is heard. Its not hard to see the only easy descent back to the creek nearby, which doesnt involve going through something.

Lets say the decision is made to continue upstream, staying in the river. I would say the second(and main) ascent is 34° 18.22'N, 118° 14.07'W (WGS84/NAD83) on the west side.
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796471&e=386406&s=9.84&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

After a obvious side canyon comes in on the east side, shortly passed that is a dry,but distinct(currently green & a little moss) waterfall on the east side as well, where water seeps through the east wall just before that as well. By missing the 2nd ascent, upstream a small upclimb waterfall is encountered. On the west side of the canyon, just before the ascent is a white rock wall and then it ends around a bend, where the ascent takes place. 2nd ascent requires gloves&a helmet, I label it strenuous but certainly doable, everyone going in a group having acquired a consensus on scree slope ascent philosophy on the first ascent. Going first up a rock/scree slope again until one can get onto the ridge next to it, pushing up the hill(slightly north-west), until just before the rocks at the top. Not touching the rocks, and contouring carefully upcanyon(northeast) until the path gets one easily to the top.

Then, it requires finding a use path, which if I havent been cussed out already, maybe then. Basically, if "pushing" through brush, wrong way(and gets miserable really quick). Walking on brush..correct. It leads to some bigger rocks, where descending slightly and contouring the upcanyon side again is required.That ends and back up to the rim you go.

Then a ridge is reached and you enter a open drainage, going up the drainage,
APPROX http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796728&e=386539&s=9.84&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

then taking a sharp left, contouring onto the ridge just west of the one headed for in the drainage. Utilizing a firebreak pattern, ascending that "second" hill until a distinct group of weathered rock is reached. Then, idealizing that landmark as an anchor, ascend east/northeast back onto the first ridge and up to the top of the ridge.

Getting down into the side canyon easily from there, really needs to be guided. But I actually first went west and up again to another side canyon that enters that side canyon. It wasnt too bad of a fight downhill. Once in the side canyon, its kind of unwelcoming right there. However, a downstream after the 2nd rap(approx 15 ft), it gets much better(and harder)!

As can be seen, navigation skills are very important for ease. But as long as the first ascent/descent is completed correctly, then at least theres the nice solid rap to complete(the first waterfall) from the top, the bottom can't be seen.

Just to be over-cautious, but based on fact, anyone who would try this without a helmet is really asking for it. While, the area is IMO a lot less dangerous than Vogel territory, I have personally witnessed a few rock slides(none in the actual ascent spaces). hehe, even one time got hit in the chest by a small rock in the first ascent as I was too close to the south wall of that ascent. Actually sort of stung, despite a tough shirt. I bet 99% of the time, its quiet, but it can happen. Also, the footing is less than ideal in the ascents. Self-arrest knowledge is handy, even better is dry skiing(glissading) knowledge for confidence. Thats like a disclaimer, I still think its a trade route and any advanced canyoneer can do the whole route. Some would say if I can do it then its a begineer route ;-)..haha but can they ghost it? Yes, there is webbing on the 1st&2nd waterfalls, but the first one(which is actually double rigged)& a retrievable rigging? hmm...I'll have to test that out later with a backup rope. Same with second waterfall.

Breakneck canyon is where I started to learn rappelling, right near the exit...I hate that trail though.

MJ? Nice to see someone is canyoneering that, I remeber it as being kind of spooky as far as poison oak and climbing the slopes of the drainage walls there(not advised whatsoever)

Right now, Im exploring another section(outside of the BT), with what I think to be nice canyons, if anyone advanced is up to group first/rare descents, let me know sideband. One straight-forward route in the mix so far, 1600 ft/1 mile beginning dry, bottom wet. Requires location to be kept a secret as possible though & non-ATS(that should raise a few eyebrows). Basically overuse is an agenda item for that one.

[desertresident]

pictures added:

waterslide
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/Ybarra3.jpg

main cyn waterfall(from the bottom)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/Ybarra4.jpg

mozing along in the main canyon
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YbarraSidecyn.jpg

side canyon - 1st rappel
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/ybarraside1.jpg

thought I had picture of last rappels in side canyon, but dont.

[desertresident]

From the earlier last point, it was a walk uphill until encountering significant sage brush and the view of the canyon entering from the east is level to the canyoneer. From there, it was the path of least resistance which surprisingly was easy to travel as it favored a rock bed that had its own mind on which direction to go. Then finally a drop in that was easy to negotiate. I travelled up canyon and saw a possible ascent route to Vogel at elevation 3200. Back to the drop-in location, it starts in the downclimb as previously viewed. The canyon being in its winter condition now was nice and clear. Right after the downclimb, a solid rap of approx 45+ ft, there would be no ghosting on this route. This part of the canyon was mostly clear, part branches to push out of the way, but even that was really neglible. A couple of the downclimbssssss/walkdowns were too iffy for me, so I had to handline it down. I finally got to the main rappel, but just before that was a nice obstacle of a deep small pool(similar to near the very end of Little Santa Anita). The main rappel had a few anchor options, so I gave it my best shot off the root of a big tree about 20 ft off the ground. Luckily, I was able to send waves up the rope to pull it back down after the rap. Would be a shame if it that drop were bolted though, in a group should be easy to find or know the correct location of where to rig. After that it was the same as previously posted, except the canyon has changed slightly due to landslides here and there, and looks like a minor flash flood ran through. Due to the increased waterflow as well, the last rappel was almost wetsuit required, but was easy at a fast paced rap/slide. I wouldnt use an autoblock under those conditions if I was paid to do so.

Lastly, this being my own opinion, this main route is right behind Fox in the Big Tujunga as the list of canyons to accomplish in that area. Of course I will continue this thread, if Im crazy enough to descend Vogel blind someday, but not right now:eek:

[desertresident]

Heres a clarification of how the main route is entered...

the 4th(&last) ascent is very close to here...also that I installed another short section of 17mm rope downstream on the west side of the side canyon in terms of feet, not yards. The rope was installed in the correct,efficient descent drainage at a point where the ease of ascent/descent is wearing away fast.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796830&e=386760&s=9.84&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

going south(&downstream) from that point is the semi-short variation.

going uphill from there north by north east(and you dont much of a choice how you go uphill) you locate a rock that you have to climb up on and this rock bed leads west to east(and slightly south). The short bushwhack to the east side of the canyon is considerably easier now that Ive been there twice.

From here retake a look at this picture...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/YbarraCyn3.jpg

Yes, can I make it less clear? But basically, the route to go is in yellow..ending in purple before the next side canyon is reached(this side canyon's water flow being anemic with an anemic exit waterfall).

The orange dot(I can barely see it myself, but..) is the first rappel, the blue one is as far as I went.

The drop-in point as far as I can remeber
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=11&n=3796928&e=387100&s=9.84&size=l&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

Not like theres a lot of choices at the drop in point , because the brush goes from bad to war.

The hardest part is as after going from west to east and then going north as the yellow line shows, you will run out of easy travel, where you cant miss spotting the walk down on the east. This is where the person should travel back northwest and then look for an easier cut to the east where rocks are interlaced with brush, that cuts down the bushwack to a negible minimum. Its just a matter of believing and have in mind where the walkdown is. But best not to take matter into ones own hands and just drop in to the main canyon, it sure looks easy, but it was deeper than I thought once I was on the bottom.

Other notes...the first ascent is a easier to locate, there is now a hole in the beginning of the ascent scree slope(which ends right into the stream), but doesnt affect much, as it was the east side of this slope that is intially ascended(after that going back toward the west as it dictates), east wall is not exactly a stable area, so best not to rest and wait for any others to join up.

2nd ascent is opposite a dryfall on the east side, technically it has a very tiny amount of water on it now. The part about water seeping through the east side..false...thats upstream of the 2nd ascent. 2nd ascent notes: intially, get out of the drainage to the northern side as best as feasible and endure going up, its getting tough to get out of the drainage further up. Hiking stick/pole here a definite +.

Lastly, if anyone is interested, I really like this canyon, so I would be happy to show an initial group the main route. Then get this thing entered into the database a way that anyone can understand. Time for the whole deal: hmm...I would say leave at 9:00 am and if everything falls in place, you will get back at 3 pm or earlier. Probably knock off an hour or two going the semi-short route. Main canyon route is rigged as of presently with 1 inch black webbing and your basic 5/16 Home Depot stainless steel rapide via water knot. The 2 main drops are rigged primary Metoulious spectra sewn sling with same rapide or stronger, and doubled with the black&stan steel rapide. Climb to the main main drop anchor is 8mm dynamic BlueWater prussik cord(which I intend to retrieve someday) . I will also remove the backup for the main main drop as I dont think its neccessary, its a pretty easy approx 100ft drop.And the second rigging on the route is actually a feasible downclimb, so I will re-examine that one,but the rappel is a lot funner :-(.

Vogel...the mystery canyon of the Big Tujunga.....getting closer...with that black rock with an orange stripe running through it is what Ybarra is like further up :-)

[desertresident]

Got into Vogel canyon via the west side of the exit waterfall using microrouting, but alas there wasnt much in the canyon vs expectations,including no other legit waterfall. There was a very short section of narrows with a tall tree sideways leaned upagainst the wall, as well as a small waterfall leading into a deep pool near the exit waterfall, but that was about it. Bunch of dry side canyons as well. Exit waterfall was an excellent rappel.

Didnt take any pictures, but heres one of the exit waterfall(30 ft wal,50 ft+ vertical) as it looked...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/vogelcanyonfalls.jpg

Well thats about it....heres some more pictures of Ybarra :rolleyes:

Beginning of the descent route....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/UpperYbarra.jpg

1st rap....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/UpperYbarra1.jpg

hardest downclimb/optional rappel....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/upperYbarra2.jpg

top of obstacle, bottom I have pictured in the gallery section...no decent anchorage(ok maybe 100 or 200ft back) for this one so either a jump or akward face first stretch hold....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/nighteyes1234/topofpothole.jpg

as for the main rappel, either someone set it right, but basically by rappelling in the water, the rope pulled easily.