2-way radios?

[dccampen]

Sigh, I anticipate being thoroughly excoriated for suggesting sullying the purity of the canyoneering experience with technology but...

In as much as FRS/GMRS 2-way, handheld radios are cheap and light; why not use them for communications such a between the top and bottom of a rappel. It seems that they could be much more efficient than whistle signals.

[rcwild]

Radios are a good option ... IF there is not too much water noise. We tried them while guiding, but gave up. Some waterfalls are so loud, it is impossible to hear.

A good whistle can be heard, even over the roar of a waterfall.

Also good to know common hand signals:

Rope too short -- Point your finger toward the ground and make a circle with your forearm, turning at the elbow. People on top should feed out more rope.

Rope too long -- Point your finger toward the sky and make a circle with your forearm, turning at the elbow. People on top should pull up rope.

Rope just right -- Hold arm out so upper arm is parallel to the ground and forearm is pointing up. Make a fist. People on top should stop lowering or raising rope and reset block or contingency or whatever.

[bj]

The only radio I could find that is waterproof is the Garmin Rino. http://www.garmin.com/products/rino/
I had one for about two years and didn't think it was a good Walkie Talkie or GPS. Too little power and too little storage. Generally speaking Walkie Talkie's don't work well in canyons anyway. Mine died.

[skianddive]

This radio from Uniden is water resistant to JIS4 levels, the same as the Pentax Optio 43WR camera:

http://store.yahoo.com/buzzappliances/104130.html

[dccampen]

This Cobra claims water restance to IP54:
http://www.cobra.com/index.php?page=shop/flypage&product_id=320&id=1
This means protected from splashing:
http://www.amrel.com/mobile_ip54.html

I used this model to talk to the top as I rappeled down a mine shaft. Communication died at about the 300 ft. level. The radio on top was a Garmin Rhino. I think that if the topside radio had also been this model Cobra and I had disabled autosquelch and we hadn't also been using tone coded squelch then we could have had communication even deeper.

[ratagonia]

We use FRS Radios a lot, especially on long drops. Makes communication SO much easier.

Waterproofness not really required. Post one at the bottom and top of the drop. It REALLY helps to have them set up with a neck leash.

Tom

[skianddive]

This radio from Uniden is water resistant to JIS4 levels, the same as the Pentax Optio 43WR camera:l (http://store.yahoo.com/buzzappliances/104130.html)
I stand corrected....by myself.

The radio conforms to JIS Class 4, while, according to the manual, the Pentax Optio 43WR camera conforms to JIS Class 5 and Class 7 standards:

JIS-4: Splashing water from any direction shall have no harmful effect (splash resistant).
JIS-5: Direct jetting water from any direction shall have no harmful effect (jet resistant).
JIS-6: Direct jetting water from any direction shall not enter the enclosure (watertight).
JIS-7: Water shall not enter the enclosure when it's immersed under defined conditions (immersion-resistant) - 30 minutes at 1 meter.
JIS-8: The equipment is usable for continuous submersion in water under specified pressure (submersible).

[Sati]

My first post around these parts. Have been greatly enjoying soaking up all of you folks knowledge (like a sponge). :)

Anywho, there are these Aquapak cases for walkie talkies, gps, etc. the claim is guaranteed waterproof to 5m and 10m so....

Seems like a good solution, especially if you already have the walkie talkies.

Check them out:
http://www.aquapac.net/storeframesets/walkie/us/UntitledFrameset-11.htm

Mini walkie-talkie Sports Case - Waterproof to 5m
Pro Case - Waterproof to 10m

I haven't used them, has anyone? Could fit the bill.

Sati (from Oakland, CA)

[Nikolaos]

I am a new member from Greece and the issue of radio communication inside in noisy waterfalls is something that never stops trouble me.

After a search on the internet i found out, that there is not anything out there special made for canyoning.

I contact with some companies by e-mail so to give them some specifications about what we want.

I have make serious conversations with some of the top experienced canyoneers in Greece and also France and Italy. The most of them (not all of them) seem to be quite satisfied with their whistles. Well i am not!!! is unthinkable that we live at 2006 and we can't design and manufacture an equipment like this.

First of all we need a waterproof speaker and headset (at least 3meters, i personally jump from big heigts and my body goes quite deep with all my equipment), i found on internet that they have produce headset for scuba divers which can go 300 feet deep! 100m!
So the waterproof spesification is an easy job.

The noise is the biggest problem. I thought that the hood of our neopren uniform in any other occasion (accept from keeping us warm ofcourse) is an enemy because reduces our hearing capability (when we use whistles), so is exactly what we need when we have an earphone (like those you see on the tv), the hood reduce the invironmental noise and is helping us to hear better. I also must say that i prefer 2 earphones and not 1 (like those waterproof earphones they made for i-pod for example,but with a speaker also), but that is a question of experimentation. The hood also can help us keep our entire headset in place, when water is falling with power in our face.
If is to hot to wear a hood.... well that is a subject of experimentation also and a specification that the designer must think about (the holder issue).

Now as regard the speaker. I am an aircraft engineer and i know about noise! the headsets we use reduce the invironmental noise and increase the source which is close to the speaker (our mouth) so i think that will not be that difficult to find a way to speak to our companions and they to be able to hear us.

Sometimes we rappeling in places with a lot of water and negative inclinations so we cant see each other or hear (accept the whistle which can't say too much about our condition, beyond mayday-mayday).
I don't think i must explain all the bennefits of a loud and clear commmunication at any time inside the canyon. We don't want to say something and our companion to hear something else (that is why pilots inside the flight deck speak only through headsets).
I can name a catalogue of advantages for the use of radio communication, but i think you can imagine too.

We must apply pressure in companies which they design communication sytems and inform them about a new global market. Thousands canyoneers from all over the world expecting something like that. I am trying in europe and i think your site has the power to do that in U.S.A..

I hope my message to be helpful.

Looking forward for your thoughts.