Medieval Chamber

[Slots4life]

My friends and I are heading down to Moab for spring break and were looking at doing the medieval chamber at the head of Negro Bill Canyon. Does anyone know about anchoring there....Are there good natural anchors or is it a bunch of sub par bolts? Thanks!

Billy

[marc olivares]

shanes climb-utah.com has a beta on this route.

i did it w/ some friends in November.
there are some bolts at the top for the first rappel into the chamber and the arch rappel was off a big tree. it was wet and soggy when we did it.
but sweet none the less.
:)

[Slots4life]

You know any other worthy slots around Moab, I go there 3 or 4 time a year but have never looked for slots in that area.

[ratagonia]

i did it w/ some friends in November.
there are some bolts at the top for the first rappel into the chamber and the arch rappel was off a big tree. it was wet and soggy when we did it.
but sweet none the less.
:)

Good bolts for the first rappel.

The Second rap over the ARCH is more classily done as a simul-rap off the arch itself. Unfortunately, at the best place, it is slightly higher than 100 feet, so a single 200' rope does not do it. A lot of the vegetation below the arch is poison ivy - try to rap down to one of the trails, rather than into the bushes.

Tom

[marc olivares]

tom is right, the simul-rap is a much more elegant finish to this trail.
if you can (and have an odd number of people) send the odd person down first and get silhouette photos of the simul-rap from the bottom of the arch...very cool.
unfortunately when we went down, not everyone in my small group felt comfortable w/ the simul... :( there's always next time.

[Slots4life]

ya...the simul-rap sounds cool...I'm by no means fat. (6'2" 180 lbs) but the two other people going w/ me are only in the 140 lbs range. I have never simul-rapped before and to me the weight difference would pose an issue. Also, I'm not to sure how they would feel about it. We all came from a rock climbing background and are are used to being on a secured rope. Thanks for the idea though! Maybe once we get a little more adventurous! :D

[Slots4life]

Went down on march 21st and it was incredible! The slot was real short, but very photogenic and intresting. We did the first rap (about 100 feet) as a two stage and climbed around the hanging pothole to finish the rap. The 2nd rap off of the bridge (or in our case next to) was incredible. We chose to avoid the bridge, and instead rappelled down the gap in between the bridge and the main rock. I will have pictures up very soon!

BILLY

[Codyb25]

Sounds like you guys had a good time. We are probably going to do this one again in the fall. We did it for the first time last may. We weren't comfortable then to do the simul rappel either. Our fearless leader had a bright idea though when we got there. Maybe some might see it as strange but it worked out great. What we ended up doing was rapping off the tree but spanning the gap to the arch so that we could enjoy the free rappel from the arch without having to simul. It took us a while to figure out the logistics of it all but we used one rope wrapped around the tree and threw each of the ends to a guy standing on the middle of the arch. We then tied an 8 in each end along with a biner for each. We left some tail on this rope and tied all of the webbing we all had together to use as a pull cord for this rope. We then used the other 200' rope through the biners to rap off of. We rapped off both strands to keep it slow though. This was a lot of setup but it was well worth it to get to go off the arch instead of down the wall. We've become more eperience since then and will most likely try to go directly off the arch next time. Thought I'd share this though for those who might want to go off the arch without worrying about a simultaneous rappel. Sweet place. I'd like to find some other canyons around that area.

[happyfeet00]

It has recently come to our attention that several people are using the tree as an anchor for the arch rappel of the Medieval Chamber. While this practice is not uncommon, the practice of pulling the rope around the tree should be. The tree has already received damage from traditional use and increased friciton from the pull (with rope anchored around tree in traditional horseshoe fashion) from the outside edge of the arch unnecessarily grooves the tree. If anybody interested in using the tree in the future could simply leave webbing (of which we will clean later) or utilize the retrievable webbing system it would be appreciated. By the local community and the tree.

If you have any questions feel free to send me an email and I can make further suggestions. Thanks and have fun.

Phillip

[Slots4life]

Thanks for making that point known! When my party went down in march, the tree was slung with about 20 feet of Navy blue webbing, and had a couple of well worn biners as rap rings. This scenario worked great, and should definately be maintained:D . This tree is definately a crucial anchor, and without it, there is little else to rap from.

See ya all in the canyons!

Billy

[ratagonia]

Thanks for making that point known! When my party went down in march, the tree was slung with about 20 feet of Navy blue webbing, and had a couple of well worn biners as rap rings. This scenario worked great, and should definately be maintained:D . This tree is definately a crucial anchor, and without it, there is little else to rap from.

See ya all in the canyons!

Billy

Interesting. "little else to rap from".

It strikes me as ironic that this thread is on the ACA Forum. The ACA is all about training and acquiring skills. A Simul-Rap is one of those skills that one ought to have in one's bag-o-tricks, and the simul-rap off this arch is, while intimidating, one of the easier ones to set up. At least the arch is big enough to comfortably move around atop.

Because the arch is so wide and comfortable, it is a little bit hard to get started on. Here's a few suggestions, for your next trip there, when you decide to enjoy all the treats:

1. Differences in weight make little difference. There is so much friction across the top (when the rope is loaded) that quite large differences in weight are allowed. Dave Black even solo'd the thing, filling his pack with rocks and lowering it down one side, then rapped off that.

2. Getting started IS difficult. Make it easier by making a look in the center of the rope, and tying that to several people sitting atop the arch. For the first two people, the rope is then anchored at the center, and they can back off each side (simultaneously) fairly casually.

3. You can do much the same thing just by standing on the rope atop the arch.

4. If there is an odd lass out, one side of the rope can be anchored at the bottom, and the odd lass can rap against that.

5. It obviously helps to train all the victims in... er, friends in rappelling single strand before getting to this point.

Some other interesting tidbits in this thread:

"We went double strand so it would be nice and slow..."

Uh, yeah. Actually, how much control you have on your rappel depends on how you set up your device for the rope or ropes on hand. I can set up a double strand 11mm very fast, and an 8mm single very slow. Please allow me to be a little bit aggro and say: you really ought to learn how to use your tools better, so that you have more tricks in the bag, for when you might need them. Take a class, or go canyoneering with people outside your own group. Expand your mind.

Tom

[charlybldr]

Even when using a simul-rappel there is still the dilemma of rope retrieval as pulling the rope over Morninglory arch leaves nasty grooves. Hence, the tree being a necessary component. Using any number of retrievable techniques at this anchor solves the "sling as trash" issue.

I for one, really appreciate Desert Highlights willingness to clean webbing off the tree as they pass through.

Charly

[Slots4life]

Tom-

Well....I guess what I said was poorly worded...:D . I meant to include the simul-rap as the (basically) only alternative besides the bolt. I prefer not to do simul-raps because the idea of rapping on a rope where the only anchor can make a mistake and take us both out just scares me a little. I give props to anyone pulling off these rappels, they just arent for me. As for going canyoneering with a group other than my own, I would be more than happy, in fact love, to! We are heading down in July to do some stuff in the swell (Cable, Bluejohn, and maybe Robber's Roost) and Also Escalante (Neon, Spooky-Peekaboo Walk through) and Last but not least Zion (Mystery, Pine Creek, and Left Fork Subway [that is if we can get the permits:eek: ]) so If anyone wants to join us...give me a shout!

BILLY

[Codyb25]

So what is the best method here? It seems that if you simul off the arch then you leave scars on the arch from pulling the rope. If you rap off the tree then you eventually wear down the tree to the point that it is unsafe. I'm assuming that wrapping the tree with webbing rather than the rope may have less wear but it will still eventually deteriorate. Sounds like the best method may to be just to stay off the arch all together and go off the tree leaving the webbing behind. It was super fun to go off the arch but we don't want to destroy the area by doing it. Any further beta on retrieval techniques or best practices is always appreciated. Some of us aren't as educated or experienced as some so constructive criticism and advice is welcome.

[charlybldr]

So what is the best method here?

I think the simul-rap is classic and should not be missed. The sequence I use is to send the group down in pairs via the simul-rap. Although a little scary the first time, this technique can be very safe. You just need to understand what you're doing and more importanlty, what not to do. Last guy down then uses the juniper tree with a retrievable rig. Once on the ground the rope and sling are retrieved leaving nothing behind.

Matt uses his "slick" but other retrievable techniques can be used as well. These techniques are advanced skills but with practice are not difficult to master. So it is important to get personal training (available through the ACA and other sources) and practice, practice, practice in a safe place until you've got the technique dialed.

If you don't feel comfortable with either the simul-rap or retrievable anchors, just rig a sling on the juniper and leave it behind. Locals are happy to clean these slings in order to preserve the condition of both the tree and the arch.

Charly

[ratagonia]

If you don't feel comfortable with either the simul-rap or retrievable anchors, just rig a sling on the juniper and leave it behind.
Charly

I think it should be said -

Just tossing the rope around a live tree is a serious no-no. Not only is it very hard on the tree, the extra friction can make the rope hard to retrieve, and if you cut into the tree and get sap on your rope, you will seriously mess up your rope, at least from an aesthetic point of view.

Live Tree - ALWAYS use a sling.

Big dead logs, on the other hand, often are easily used without a sling, at least when the bark is gone. Lots of big Ponderosa logs in Zion canyons, for instance, are easily used by just chucking the rope around the log.

Tom

[Slots4life]

Well...I finally stepped up to the plate and did the simul-rap. It was incredible! Since there are only two of us down this summer, we decided it was the prime opportunity to attempt it. We had a 60m dynamic rope (Mammut supersafe if it matters) and even with both of us on it the thing BARELY hit the ground. After finally trying it I definately see where the simul-rap is the best choice for that rap in most situations.

See ya in the slots!
BILLY

[Dark_Rider46]

I was wondering if anyone knows how to get to the start of the Medieval Chamber in Moab, looking at doing a weekend trip but cant find directions to get there.

Thanks for the help

[charlybldr]

AKA Morning Glory Canyon. Beta in the ACA Database.

[moab mark]

Go out sandflats road to radio tower on north side of road and walk down the wash going north from tower will take you right to medevil chamber 1 mile walk.
Mark

[moab mark]

Thanks for making that point known! When my party went down in march, the tree was slung with about 20 feet of Navy blue webbing, and had a couple of well worn biners as rap rings. This scenario worked great, and should definately be maintained:D . This tree is definately a crucial anchor, and without it, there is little else to rap from.

See ya all in the canyons!

Billy

I have done the Morning glory arch several times in the last month by using the tree and running the ropes over the arch and down the far side, The problem we have been having is pulling our ropes down. We are horse shoeing the tree with 50 ft of webbing which when 4 times is only about 12 ft from the tree with the friction going over the arch and then to the rap rings in the webbing it is all we can do to pull down the rope. Has any one girth hitched the tree to extend the webbing out twice as far and then been able to pull the webbing down after the rope has been pulled down by tying the pull cord to the webbing that is girth right at the tree. We would like to get the webbing to the arches edge but that would take alot of webbing. The idea of the last guy dropping the rope off of both sides of the arch and then using some one on the ground as the anchor or the big tree just to left has some merit but I would think pulling the rope up and over the arch will have about as much friction if not more.
I spend alot of time in Moab jeeping and playing and this is the only slot I am aware of of this quality.

last but not least, I stumbled on to this website the other day and have to say I am very impressed with the knowledge that is available in the forums. Thanks
Mark