charlybldr
03-23-2006, 06:04 PM
Cross Post from the Canyons Group:
I WAS FEELING VERY ANXIOUS ABOUT THE WORD THAT FOLKS AT THE BLM IN
HANKSVILLE WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT TRASH AND IMPACTS OVER AT THE SANDTHRAX CAMPSITE. I TOOK THE TIME TO STOP AT THE OFFICE, FIRST THING IN THE MORNING ON MONDAY, WHEN I WAS TRANSITIONING FROM A SNOWY WEEKEND IN ARCHES, TO THE CANYONS OF NORTH WASH. I ENDED UP SPENDING ALMOST AN HOUR AND A HALF DISCUSSING ISSUES.
I MET WITH SUE, WHO HAD BEEN A POSITIVE AND AWESOME RESOURSE ON MANY OCCASIONS OVER THE YEARS. I REINTRODUCED MYSELF AND STATED THAT I HAD HEARD THAT THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT THE SITE. I WAS PROVIDED WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION.
THEY DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC USING THE SITE.
MOSTLY CONCERNED WITH SANITATION AND WHAT THEY CALLED MICRO TRASH. I SHARED MY OPINION THAT APPROX. 80% OR MORE OF THE CAMPING TRAFFIC THERE IS FROM THE CANYON COMMUNITY AND THAT IT IS MORE TIGHTLY KNIT THAN THEY MIGHT SUPPOSE, THROUGH THIS FORUM, THE WEBSITE CANYON GUIDES AND THE ACA FORUM. THAT THERE IS A GROUP THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED, THAT HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN THE SITE AND WANTS A POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LAND MANAGERS. THAT TRASH AND SANITATION NEEDS ARE BEING TAKEN CARE OF AT HOG SPRINGS AND THE COMMUNITY IS ENCOURAGING SUCH BEHAVIOR. I MENTIONED THAT EDUCATION ON NO TRACE AND LOW IMPACT METHODS ARE BEING TAUGHT. I ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE AREA HAS A NO BOLT ETHIC AND TALKED ABOUT ANCHORING TECHNIQUES, SAND BAG AND RETRIEVABLE ANCHOR SYSTEMS AND THE COMMUNITIES STEADY MOVEMENT TOWARD CLEANER CANYONEERING.
I MENTIONED THAT THE COMMUNITY COULD AND WOULD PROVIDE VOLUNTEERS FOR SERVICE PROJECTS. THIS HAD A HUGELY POSITIVE EFFECT, AS LACK OF MAN POWER IS A CHALLENGE FOR THEM. THEY WERE IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE SITE AND CLOSING IT WAS ONE OF THE IDEAS BANTERED ABOUT. I STRONGLY RECOMMENDED AGAINST THAT, EXPLAINING THAT THE COMMUNITY IS GROWING AND THAT WE ARE THERE AND MORE FOLKS ARE COMING AND IF THAT RESOURCE IS REMOVED THEN FOLKS WILL SQUAT WHERE THEY CAN, SPREADING THE IMPACT THAT NOW IS LARGELY ABSORBED IN THIS AREA OF WHAT? AN ACRE OR TWO? THEY WERE CONSIDERING ESTABLISHING A SITE OUT WEST OF 276/95 JUNCTION. I SUGGESTED THAT THAT WAS OUT IN THE OPEN AND SUBJECT TO THE WIND AND NOT A DESIRABLE ALTERNATIVE. WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER A SIGN AT THE SANDTHRAX SITE, DIRECTING SANITATION NEEDS TO HOGS SPRINGS, CUT NO WOOD ETC. WOULD BE A GOOD THING.
OTHER BLM CONCERNS THAT I WASN'T AWARE OF, ARE THAT THE CANYON IS ON THE BIGHORN MIGRATION TRAIL. ALSO, THE ENDANGERD MEXICAN SPOTTED OWL HAS BEEN SEEN IN BUTLER. WE WERE NOT SURE WHAT PART OF THE CANYON. THIS COULD LEAD TO SEASONAL CLOSINGS OF PART OR ALL OF THAT SYSTEM. IN GENERAL IT WAS A VERY POSITIVE INTERACTION AND THEY SEEMED PLEASED THAT FOLKS CARE ABOUT THE AREA. THEY BENIFITTED FROM ALL THE INFORMATION AND WE BENEFIT FROM BEING SEEN AS AN COMMUNITY THAT CAN BE SUPPORTIVE, NOT JUST A COLLECTION OF SQUATTERS THAT WE APPEARED TO BE, TO THEM BEFORE.
OVER THE WEEK, AT THE SANDTHRAX SITE, I LOOKED AT THE GROUNDS WITH
NEW EYES. THERE IS A BIT OF MICRO TRASH ABOUT, BUT NOT A TON, ESPECIALLY AFTER DOING PICK UP ON IT ALL WEEK. WHAT I DID NOTICE WAS
LOTS OF OLD, RUSTED TRASH.... CANS, MACHINERY, ETC. THERE IS STILL A
BIT OF A TOILET PAPER ISSUE UP ABOVE THE COTTONWOODS, AS HANK MENTIONS. CLEANED UP PART OF THAT TOO (YUCK!). LESS OF A PROBLEM
THAN IN YEARS PAST. THE WORD THAT TOM, RICH AND SHANE ARE HELPING TO GET OUT IS WORKING TOO. BRANDT HAD SEVERAL COMMENTS AND IDEAS,
AROUND THE FIRE. SETTING UP A ROCK BARRIER ON THE EDGES OF THE
ROADS, TO PREVENT CARS DAMAGING MORE OF THE VEGETATION. THERE ARE A LOT OF FIRE PITS. MAYBE MORE THAN NEEDED. ALSO WE FELT THE NEED TO ENCOURAGE THAT WOOD BE BROUGHT FROM ELSEWHERE. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE ANYWAY, AS SANDTRAX LACKS THE SUPPLY. ALSO, FIRES SHOULD BE SEASONAL, AT MOST. I KNOW I WILL ONLY USE THEM DURING THE COLDER MONTHS OF THE YEAR. MAYBE THOSE IDEAS SHOULD ALSO BE ENCOURAGED MORE. ALSO NOTED WAS THAT MUCH OF THE DAMAGE DONE WAS BY HEAVY MACHINERY USING THE SITE TO TURN AROUND IN. BRANDT SUGGESTED THAT MOST OF THAT HAPPENED WHEN ROAD WORK WAS OCCURRING, BUT IT SEEMS SOME OF THE TRACKS ARE MORE RECENT IN ORIGIN. BRANDT SUGGESTED THAT CLOSING OFF THE DEVELOPING ROAD, OUT THE BACK OF THE SITE MIGHT BE WISE, AS THE AREA WHERE IT CROSSES THE SANDTHRAX DRAINAGE PROPER, HAS SOME RIPARIAN. WE FELT THAT IT WAS A BAD IDEA TO HAVE FIRE GRATES AND PICNIC TABLES ETC. THAT WHEN THE AUTHORITIES BECOME INVOLVED, THEY WILL JUST CONTINUE TO BECOME MORE INVOLVED. THAT KIND OF LEAVES IT UP TO US, IF WE WANT TO REMAIN UNREGULATED. WE MUST PROTECT THE SITE, TEACH THE UNINITIATED AND POLICE THE GROUNDS RELIGIOUSLY, FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH TRASH, SANITATION AND IMPACT CONCERNS.
I ALSO PROVIDED SUE WITH LINKS TO THE WEBSITES. HER READING ABOUT
HOW SERIOUSLY WE TAKE ALL THESE ISSUES CAN ONLY HELP AND PROVIDE AN AVENUE TO OUR BEING CONSULTED ON THE DIRECTION LAND MANAGEMENT WILL TAKE, IN THIS AND OTHER CANYONEERING VENUES. WE ALSO TOOK OUT ALL THE TOPOS OF THE AREA AND I MARKED THE NAMES OF CANYONS AT ALL THE APPROPRIATE SPOTS, ALONG WITH SOME GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT RAPS, DIFFICULTY, ACCESS ETC. IT MADE SENSE TO PROVIDE THE FOLKS THAT MIGHT BE CALLED UPON TO ORGANIZE A RESCUE TO BE CLUED IN ON WHAT WE, THE CANYONEERING COMMUNITY, WERE CALLING THESE PLACES AND WHO THEY MIGHT CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION. SHE COULDN'T GET ENOUGH OF THIS INFORMATION. I ALSO SENT HER AN INVITE TO THIS FORUM ,TODAY. I DIRECTED HER TO THE START OF THIS THREAD AND THE ONE MR. THOMPSON STARTED ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF CANYONEERING, TO SHOW HER THAT THESE DIALOGUES ARE OCCURING ALREADY. I HOPE SHE AND OTHERS AT THE OFFICE JOIN AND CHOOSE TO PARTICIPATE. I ALSO FACILITATED AN INTRODUCTION
BETWEEN RICH AT THE ACA ,AND THE OFFICE. RICH'S GENEROUS STANDING
OFFER TO TRAIN LAND MANAGERS ON CANYON TECHNIQUE AND RESCUE IS
ANOTHER INVALUABLE CONTRIBUTION THAT WE CAN, AS A COMMUNITY, MAKE TOWARD HAVING CONTROL OVER OUR OWN RECREATION.
RAM
I WAS FEELING VERY ANXIOUS ABOUT THE WORD THAT FOLKS AT THE BLM IN
HANKSVILLE WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT TRASH AND IMPACTS OVER AT THE SANDTHRAX CAMPSITE. I TOOK THE TIME TO STOP AT THE OFFICE, FIRST THING IN THE MORNING ON MONDAY, WHEN I WAS TRANSITIONING FROM A SNOWY WEEKEND IN ARCHES, TO THE CANYONS OF NORTH WASH. I ENDED UP SPENDING ALMOST AN HOUR AND A HALF DISCUSSING ISSUES.
I MET WITH SUE, WHO HAD BEEN A POSITIVE AND AWESOME RESOURSE ON MANY OCCASIONS OVER THE YEARS. I REINTRODUCED MYSELF AND STATED THAT I HAD HEARD THAT THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT THE SITE. I WAS PROVIDED WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION.
THEY DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC USING THE SITE.
MOSTLY CONCERNED WITH SANITATION AND WHAT THEY CALLED MICRO TRASH. I SHARED MY OPINION THAT APPROX. 80% OR MORE OF THE CAMPING TRAFFIC THERE IS FROM THE CANYON COMMUNITY AND THAT IT IS MORE TIGHTLY KNIT THAN THEY MIGHT SUPPOSE, THROUGH THIS FORUM, THE WEBSITE CANYON GUIDES AND THE ACA FORUM. THAT THERE IS A GROUP THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED, THAT HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN THE SITE AND WANTS A POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LAND MANAGERS. THAT TRASH AND SANITATION NEEDS ARE BEING TAKEN CARE OF AT HOG SPRINGS AND THE COMMUNITY IS ENCOURAGING SUCH BEHAVIOR. I MENTIONED THAT EDUCATION ON NO TRACE AND LOW IMPACT METHODS ARE BEING TAUGHT. I ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE AREA HAS A NO BOLT ETHIC AND TALKED ABOUT ANCHORING TECHNIQUES, SAND BAG AND RETRIEVABLE ANCHOR SYSTEMS AND THE COMMUNITIES STEADY MOVEMENT TOWARD CLEANER CANYONEERING.
I MENTIONED THAT THE COMMUNITY COULD AND WOULD PROVIDE VOLUNTEERS FOR SERVICE PROJECTS. THIS HAD A HUGELY POSITIVE EFFECT, AS LACK OF MAN POWER IS A CHALLENGE FOR THEM. THEY WERE IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE SITE AND CLOSING IT WAS ONE OF THE IDEAS BANTERED ABOUT. I STRONGLY RECOMMENDED AGAINST THAT, EXPLAINING THAT THE COMMUNITY IS GROWING AND THAT WE ARE THERE AND MORE FOLKS ARE COMING AND IF THAT RESOURCE IS REMOVED THEN FOLKS WILL SQUAT WHERE THEY CAN, SPREADING THE IMPACT THAT NOW IS LARGELY ABSORBED IN THIS AREA OF WHAT? AN ACRE OR TWO? THEY WERE CONSIDERING ESTABLISHING A SITE OUT WEST OF 276/95 JUNCTION. I SUGGESTED THAT THAT WAS OUT IN THE OPEN AND SUBJECT TO THE WIND AND NOT A DESIRABLE ALTERNATIVE. WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER A SIGN AT THE SANDTHRAX SITE, DIRECTING SANITATION NEEDS TO HOGS SPRINGS, CUT NO WOOD ETC. WOULD BE A GOOD THING.
OTHER BLM CONCERNS THAT I WASN'T AWARE OF, ARE THAT THE CANYON IS ON THE BIGHORN MIGRATION TRAIL. ALSO, THE ENDANGERD MEXICAN SPOTTED OWL HAS BEEN SEEN IN BUTLER. WE WERE NOT SURE WHAT PART OF THE CANYON. THIS COULD LEAD TO SEASONAL CLOSINGS OF PART OR ALL OF THAT SYSTEM. IN GENERAL IT WAS A VERY POSITIVE INTERACTION AND THEY SEEMED PLEASED THAT FOLKS CARE ABOUT THE AREA. THEY BENIFITTED FROM ALL THE INFORMATION AND WE BENEFIT FROM BEING SEEN AS AN COMMUNITY THAT CAN BE SUPPORTIVE, NOT JUST A COLLECTION OF SQUATTERS THAT WE APPEARED TO BE, TO THEM BEFORE.
OVER THE WEEK, AT THE SANDTHRAX SITE, I LOOKED AT THE GROUNDS WITH
NEW EYES. THERE IS A BIT OF MICRO TRASH ABOUT, BUT NOT A TON, ESPECIALLY AFTER DOING PICK UP ON IT ALL WEEK. WHAT I DID NOTICE WAS
LOTS OF OLD, RUSTED TRASH.... CANS, MACHINERY, ETC. THERE IS STILL A
BIT OF A TOILET PAPER ISSUE UP ABOVE THE COTTONWOODS, AS HANK MENTIONS. CLEANED UP PART OF THAT TOO (YUCK!). LESS OF A PROBLEM
THAN IN YEARS PAST. THE WORD THAT TOM, RICH AND SHANE ARE HELPING TO GET OUT IS WORKING TOO. BRANDT HAD SEVERAL COMMENTS AND IDEAS,
AROUND THE FIRE. SETTING UP A ROCK BARRIER ON THE EDGES OF THE
ROADS, TO PREVENT CARS DAMAGING MORE OF THE VEGETATION. THERE ARE A LOT OF FIRE PITS. MAYBE MORE THAN NEEDED. ALSO WE FELT THE NEED TO ENCOURAGE THAT WOOD BE BROUGHT FROM ELSEWHERE. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE ANYWAY, AS SANDTRAX LACKS THE SUPPLY. ALSO, FIRES SHOULD BE SEASONAL, AT MOST. I KNOW I WILL ONLY USE THEM DURING THE COLDER MONTHS OF THE YEAR. MAYBE THOSE IDEAS SHOULD ALSO BE ENCOURAGED MORE. ALSO NOTED WAS THAT MUCH OF THE DAMAGE DONE WAS BY HEAVY MACHINERY USING THE SITE TO TURN AROUND IN. BRANDT SUGGESTED THAT MOST OF THAT HAPPENED WHEN ROAD WORK WAS OCCURRING, BUT IT SEEMS SOME OF THE TRACKS ARE MORE RECENT IN ORIGIN. BRANDT SUGGESTED THAT CLOSING OFF THE DEVELOPING ROAD, OUT THE BACK OF THE SITE MIGHT BE WISE, AS THE AREA WHERE IT CROSSES THE SANDTHRAX DRAINAGE PROPER, HAS SOME RIPARIAN. WE FELT THAT IT WAS A BAD IDEA TO HAVE FIRE GRATES AND PICNIC TABLES ETC. THAT WHEN THE AUTHORITIES BECOME INVOLVED, THEY WILL JUST CONTINUE TO BECOME MORE INVOLVED. THAT KIND OF LEAVES IT UP TO US, IF WE WANT TO REMAIN UNREGULATED. WE MUST PROTECT THE SITE, TEACH THE UNINITIATED AND POLICE THE GROUNDS RELIGIOUSLY, FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH TRASH, SANITATION AND IMPACT CONCERNS.
I ALSO PROVIDED SUE WITH LINKS TO THE WEBSITES. HER READING ABOUT
HOW SERIOUSLY WE TAKE ALL THESE ISSUES CAN ONLY HELP AND PROVIDE AN AVENUE TO OUR BEING CONSULTED ON THE DIRECTION LAND MANAGEMENT WILL TAKE, IN THIS AND OTHER CANYONEERING VENUES. WE ALSO TOOK OUT ALL THE TOPOS OF THE AREA AND I MARKED THE NAMES OF CANYONS AT ALL THE APPROPRIATE SPOTS, ALONG WITH SOME GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT RAPS, DIFFICULTY, ACCESS ETC. IT MADE SENSE TO PROVIDE THE FOLKS THAT MIGHT BE CALLED UPON TO ORGANIZE A RESCUE TO BE CLUED IN ON WHAT WE, THE CANYONEERING COMMUNITY, WERE CALLING THESE PLACES AND WHO THEY MIGHT CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION. SHE COULDN'T GET ENOUGH OF THIS INFORMATION. I ALSO SENT HER AN INVITE TO THIS FORUM ,TODAY. I DIRECTED HER TO THE START OF THIS THREAD AND THE ONE MR. THOMPSON STARTED ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF CANYONEERING, TO SHOW HER THAT THESE DIALOGUES ARE OCCURING ALREADY. I HOPE SHE AND OTHERS AT THE OFFICE JOIN AND CHOOSE TO PARTICIPATE. I ALSO FACILITATED AN INTRODUCTION
BETWEEN RICH AT THE ACA ,AND THE OFFICE. RICH'S GENEROUS STANDING
OFFER TO TRAIN LAND MANAGERS ON CANYON TECHNIQUE AND RESCUE IS
ANOTHER INVALUABLE CONTRIBUTION THAT WE CAN, AS A COMMUNITY, MAKE TOWARD HAVING CONTROL OVER OUR OWN RECREATION.
RAM