Gloves for Canyoneering

[paulsailer]

Can anyone recommend good gloves for canyoneering.

The $6.00 leather gloves I bought at WalMart worked Ok but haven't held up well between the water, sharp rocks in Fat Mans Misery, Zion standstone, etc.

Anyone have experience with gloves that don't impede rope handling and hold up well? .

Anyone tried Sailing Gloves?

Is there a material better than leather?

[sonnylawrence]

Here is sort of a non-answer to your question. For really cold conditions such as icey water in frozen potholes, I have been using the Chota glove/mittens. They are warm when wet. They dry quickly. I can easily flip from the fingerless glove mode to the mitten mode. I have rappelled a lot with them yet the palm holds up well. A week ago I bivouaced in them in a snow trench. They started out wet (from digging the trench) and ended up dry. (Yeah, it was a miserable night but I survived.) Be careful on the rappel part with these hand covers.
Chota Stow-A-Way (http://www.chotaoutdoorgear.com/CyberMerchant/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=65)

[beadysee]

Can anyone recommend good gloves for canyoneering.
Is there a material better than leather?

Yeah, your bare hands.

I think if folks "need" gloves, then there's something wrong with their technique.

Only excuses I can think of for wearing gloves would be exposure to cold temperatures or you're a highly paid hand model.

If you need them for rappelling, then, you really just need to learn how to rappel.

My two cents...FWIW...

(I note that Metolius makes some pretty durable gloves for wall/aid climbing, fingerless):

http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/gloves.htm

-Brian in SLC

[hank_moon]

Hey Brian

When will you ever give up on this silly bare hand ethic? Ever tape your hands for crack climbing?

Gloves are especially appreciated for multi-day trips through skinny canyons. As you generally shun the skinnies, I suppose it is understandable you do not appreciate the extreme exfoliation that occurs after a few days of bare-handed Mae Westing. Try it sometime...bet you'll wear gloves after a few days. That said, I agree with Brian that gloves are generally not needed for rappelling - if you have to hold on that hard, something's wrong with your system.

Best gloves I've found for canyoneering are the ubiquitous rubber-coated knit ones found at any hardware store (and some C-stores). Atlas brand seems to hold up better than others. Here's a link to buy some from America's #1 source of canyoneering specialty gear:

CLICK HERE (http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/view_product.php?product=Atlas%20300I&searchlink=yes&search=GLOVES&page=1)

[Slots4life]

To me gloves are so ya dont get burned by your belay device on some of the longer rappels around. I use the Metolius fingerless big wall gloves and love them. They seem ultra sturdy and the added dexterity from having no fingers is a definate bonus. As for using the "truck gloves" , I often work in a freezer that is 10 below and they provide good protection from abrasion and cold. Hope that helps!

See y'all in the slots!

BILLY

[beadysee]

When will you ever give up on this silly bare hand ethic? Ever tape your hands for crack climbing?

Never (said loudly with a French accent).

Indian Creek cracks, yes. Not for lack of technique, though. Which is my point. Totally concur that some folks have really really delicate skin and gloves prevent wear and tear on a long canyon day. Also nice 'cause when they do some down climbing, they usually get nervious and take them off, then drop one, lose one, and it adds a nice, relaxing amount of time in the canyon futzing with the extra gear, which lets some of us enjoy the canyon ambience oh so much more.

But...if you wear them because you think you need to for rappelling...

Crete is sweet. No gloves for me yet. I have seen some folks wear them though. Its a nice fashion accessory. I have no fashion sense myself.

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC (on Crete actually)

[Spatulator]

When your hands have been wet for so long that they get pruny and the skin gets really soft a long rappel can literally tear the skin right off your hand. I know this from personal experience. In this instance gloves are nice to have. I'd love to find some that would last through more than just a couple of canyons.

[firstdesertrat]

I woud just suggest the rubberized concrete glove that you can get at the hardware store. They may n ot keep your hands warm but they shouldlast a while.

[Eshi-1]

Ok, crack climbing deas call for taping your hands, but how is this related to rappelling?

In 17 years on ropes I used gloves maybe twice, only to experience that amazing glove sansetaion some people talk about...

I look at my hand as my safety-meter. If it starts to get to warm - It's time to slow down, ad friction, do something.

If I was to wear a glove, I won't be feeling the heat building up.
I might go too fast and burn my hand trying to stop...
Might go too fast and lose control of the rope...
Might go too fast, stop too fast and burn my rope from the over-heating of my rap device...

Any of these options sounds familiar to some San Gabrial canyoneers?
You might want to think about those gloves again.

[desertresident]

>Any of these options sounds familiar to some San Gabrial canyoneers?
Nah to any of those, I always wear proper gloves, although I recongize it as just a choice and no gloves works fine(until its time for serious microroutes or its a cold route).

Do you rap barefoot?

[hank_moon]

Ok, crack climbing deas call for taping your hands, but how is this related to rappelling?

this thread is about gloves for canyoneering, not only for rappelling...:)

[joe storms]

You may just want to go with the $6 work gloves. If you go to a more expensive glove they may last just a little longer but the cost to lifespan ratio may indicate it is not worth it. Just think of them as the price of doing business. I cut the fingers off mine and put them over my neoprene gloves this extends the life of my neoprene a little longer.
Another option is what I call the Orange Hazmat Glove. I have a pair of these at work and they are a pretty heavy duty rubberized glove. The nice thing with these is they are waterproof, however water can get in through the cuff. I think you would have to try hard to wear these out. Just make sure you get a pair that are not too big.

[ratagonia]

... I cut the fingers off mine and put them over my neoprene gloves this extends the life of my neoprene a little longer.
Another option is what I call the Orange Hazmat Glove. I have a pair of these at work and they are a pretty heavy duty rubberized glove...

Gotta watch out, when combining gloves - sometimes they get so thick that you no longer are able to grip the rope adequately. I'm sure its been said before and will be said again, but wearing gloves is NO SUBSTITUTE for setting up your rappel correctly in the first place.

Tom

[glennjd3]

I personally like a little hand protection on rough sandstone with water logged hands. I tried the expensive kind (PMI climbing gloves) and they blew out on the second canyon I took them in. The best for me are either mechanic hands gloves (15-20$) (tough and durable) or the rubberized knit gloves (4.99). I actually like the rubberized gloves better because they keep my hands warm in cold water. Oh, by the way, I take the gloves off for rappelling.

[Zarka]

The $6.00 leather gloves I bought at WalMart worked Ok but haven't held up well ...

DUDE! $6?!

You should be shopping at the local chinese tool import store. Leather work gloves are $2, maybe $5, a pair.

Eshed,
Yes, you're right setting the friction is #1, but I also get grief from you guys when I use my ATC which seems to have just the right amount of friction for my heavy ass on those long raps and overhangs.

[glennjd3]

DUDE! $6?!

Eshed,
Yes, you're right setting the friction is #1, but I also get grief from you guys when I use my ATC which seems to have just the right amount of friction for my heavy ass on those long raps and overhangs.


I like to adust my belay device to the canyon I'm running. Sometimes I use a figure 8, other times an ATCxp (I like the extra control with a heavy pack). I've even used.....Gasp.....a micro rack.

[paulsailer]

Afer experimenting with a lot of different type gloves. I finally found great gloves for canyoneering at one of the dollar stores--I think it was dollar tree. They cost --well you guessed it $1.

They are cheap knit cotton rubberized latex gloves, with blue latex and look really poorly made --maybe even seconds--
(hey what do you expect for $1); In fact I found it necessary to cut out some latex strands between the fingers with a scissors before I could use them. .

I also cut off the tips of the thumbs and index fingers (only on the latex part)
so I would be able to work with the thumb and index finger to handle rope, put rope in my rap device, and do other tasks without taking off the goves.

They seem to hold up in canyons, provide good protection, add some warmth in cold water, and as an added bonus stick pretty well to rock when climbing. In fact you can almost use them spider man fashion to walk up a flat wall.

They are stickier than your skin, so you have to keep the rope looser when you rap, but they give you a terrific grip on handlines, or on ropes if you want to get a tight grip.

And if they don't last forever--well they are cheap, .

Walmart sells a much better quality rubberized cotten latex gloves for a few dollars that also seem to work.




]

[rcwild]

Gloves for canyoneering are worn for several reasons: warmth, warmth in cold water, protection from rope friction, protection from abrasion from rock, etc. Natural choice for warmth in cold water would be neoprene, but those crazy Euros are wearing cheap rubber gloves. They look like dish washing gloves, but they're more durable. I bought a pair that were made for painting and refinishing. They work well and are surprisingly warm. Only complaint is that they are a bit hard to get back on.

During the rondy in Arizona, Greg Horne showed me a pair of commercial fishing gloves he uses. Like the painting/refinishing gloves, but with a thin fiber lining. I found a good source online:

Blue Ocean Tackle (http://www.blueoceantackle.com/gloves.htm)

The two pairs I ordered arrived today. They fit well and seem to provide more dexterity than neoprene, but not quite as much as the slightly thinner painting/refinishing gloves. I'll provide a follow-up report after I've done a few canyons with them.

[DJ Meding]

The two pairs I ordered arrived today. They fit well and seem to provide more dexterity than neoprene, but not quite as much as the slightly thinner painting/refinishing gloves. I'll provide a follow-up report after I've done a few canyons with them.

Wow, Mr. Carlson wearing gloves, now I've seen everything:) Will these be Mexican canyons that you are trying them in?

[Aussie Canyon Hunter]

I have some friends who use gill competition sailing gloves. Expencive however they have lasted them 2 seasons in the rough sandstone canyons west of Sydney.
They swear by them.

[Canyon Kelp]

I picked up a pair of gloves to use in Zion after noticing in photos of other canyoneers using knit gloves with rubber coating.

While searching for a source for these babies I noticed some cut and abrasion resistant Dyneema / Spandex gloves.

Huh I sez that's the same stuff they use for my Bluewater Canyon Pro DS which seems to be cutting my Pirana.

I used them in 3 canyons and haven't cut through them yet... Some kind of a record for me :D, though most of the rubber burnt off on the first day.

They don't provide much if any protection from heat but have excellent abrasion resistance.

The only sources I have located so far is W.W. Grainger (www.grainger.com (http://www.grainger.com)) but they sell only to commercial customers the item # is 2RA22 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2RA22)

McMaster-Carr Supply stock # 9465T3 (www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com)) Same deal here commercial customers only

Cheers
Matt

[DJ Meding]

If you are shopping on-line or via their cataloge then the commercial customers only rule will apply. If you visit one of their outlets then all customers are welcome even though they are promoted as a wholesale industrial supply house.
Dave

[DJ Meding]

Sorry I wasn't more specific. That post had to do with Grainger and not the other outlet mentioned.

[sonnylawrence]

Huh I sez that's the same stuff they use for my Bluewater Canyon Pro DS which seems to be cutting my Pirana.



I bet it is the sand attached to the rope, not the rope itself that cuts your hardware. It is much worse in wet, sandy canyons. Try to wash your rope off in potholes if it gets dirty.

[ratagonia]

I picked up a pair of gloves to use in Zion after noticing in photos of other canyoneers using knit gloves with rubber coating.

While searching for a source for these babies I noticed some cut and abrasion resistant Dyneema / Spandex gloves. Huh I sez that's the same stuff they use for my Bluewater Canyon Pro DS which seems to be cutting my Pirana. I used them in 3 canyons and haven't cut through them yet... Some kind of a record for me :D, though most of the rubber burnt off on the first day. They don't provide much if any protection from heat but have excellent abrasion resistance.

The only sources I have located so far is W.W. Grainger (www.grainger.com (http://www.grainger.com)) but they sell only to commercial customers the item # is 2RA22 (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2RA22)

McMaster-Carr Supply stock # 9465T3 (www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com)) Same deal here commercial customers only

Cheers
Matt

If you want, you can buy dipped-knit gloves that have been checked out and found to work for canyoneering at www.CanyoneeringUSA.com Or, at least you could if the Russians would finish installing my new shopping cart system!

Soon, I hope, I pray.

The gloves I have (Atlas Thermofit) are knit poly/acrylic/cotton with a latex-type dipped palm and fingers, work pretty good, are not-sticky enough to use rappelling, have a good feel, and last for a few canyons (but not a lot, depending on how you use them), and are relatively cheap ($7.00).

Tom

[Canyon Kelp]

I used them in 3 canyons and haven't cut through them yet...

Make that 4 canyons now...

[Marc McDonald]

Tom,

What's up with your website? Do you have an ETA on the return of your on-line store or is it being held for ransom by the Russian mafia?

[Canyon Kelp]

Make that 4 canyons now...

Uh... 5 canyons and counting

They are a little "fuzzy" in places but certainly not cut through.

Wet canyons the heat issue is most moot.

Cheers
Matt

[ratagonia]

Tom,

What's up with your website? Do you have an ETA on the return of your on-line store or is it being held for ransom by the Russian mafia?

Thanks Marc. The CUSA Store is back up and running, though not without a few little quirks.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com

Tom

[Marc McDonald]

I would agree with the folks who say gloves are a personal choice with one exception and that's cold water/ice. You are absolutely doing the wrong thing if you're tolerating numbness in your hands because you have an ethical adversion to gloves. I would highly recommend James Wilkerson's new book (2006) on hypothermia and cold injuries for anyone operating outdoors in cold environments. I've been a wilderness EMT for more than 10 years and it's the best book I've read on cold related injuries. I won't go into the details of what frostbite does to the fine vasculature of the hands, but if you're interested please read the book.

If you want to rappel bare handed as a gage of your speed and heat-related friction, I can certainly appreciate your choice, but I think it's both unfair and narrow minded to make the suggestion that someone else is unskilled because they prefer to protect their hands. I'm not a beginner. I've been descending canyons for 17 years and I've been reviewing accident reports for longer than that both as a professional firefighter and as an interested outdoors person. The majority of mountaineering accidents reported in "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" most years are rappel/descent related. I have personally treated enough bad friction burns to prefer to protect my hands with gloves on long rappels, but I would never demand that anyone else do the same. Like many techniques there are advantages and limitations. It comes down to what you're most comfortable with as a technician and not your skill level.

[Marc McDonald]

Thanks Marc. The CUSA Store is back up and running, though not without a few little quirks.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the update. There are a few things I need, so I'm glad to see you back up and in business. I'll visit soon.

By the way, I love the new Spry hybrid pack I got from you last month. My old packs are now collecting dust in the gear closet.

[rcwild]

Hi Marc,

There are posts in this thread about using gloves for warmth, to protect against abrasion from rock, etc. I don't think anyone is arguing against gloves for these purposes.

When it comes to using gloves to protect hands from rope friction I suppose some of the comments may sound a bit elitist, but I don't think anyone is trying to say that you are a sissy if you use gloves.

The point is that people should learn to rig their rappelling device correctly to achieve the friction they need. If they learn to rappel using gloves and never learn to rig their device for friction, there is a risk of a serious accident someday in the future when they find themselves without gloves.

[Marc McDonald]

Hi Marc,

The point is that people should learn to rig their rappelling device correctly to achieve the friction they need. If they learn to rappel using gloves and never learn to rig their device for friction, there is a risk of a serious accident someday in the future when they find themselves without gloves.

Rich,

I completely agree that everyone should learn to be able to properly set up the friction on their rappel device. It's an essential skill whether or not you use gloves. There seems to be an attitude that if you use gloves you aren't paying attention to proper rappel device setup. This is not true and it's missing the point of using gloves, which is to provide a safety margin in case the unexpected happens. I have had the unfortunate experience of treating friction burns on climbers who were belaying bare handed and were not able to forsee they may not always be in control of the situation.

[dcampen]

Yeah, your bare hands.

I think if folks "need" gloves, then there's something wrong with their technique.

Only excuses I can think of for wearing gloves would be exposure to cold temperatures or you're a highly paid hand model.

If you need them for rappelling, then, you really just need to learn how to rappel.

My two cents...FWIW...
Yeah, the same for helmets. Anyone who needs to wear a helmet is incompetent.

[matt]

I don't always bring gloves with me, but when I do I usually appreciate their help. Sure, you can rig your descender for high friction and add a carabiner here or there, but sometimes - especially with a wet, muddy, sandy, kinked-up rope - rigging your descender in low friction mode and using gloves to add the necessary additional friction results in the smoothest ride.

There's no shame in using gloves. They're just another tool, right?

Matt

[Marc McDonald]

Speculation or not, is your life worth less than a pair of gloves? I don't care how much friction you may start out with, it only takes a few seconds of uncontrolled descent to have your hand blistered and useless as a brake.
Put the gloves in that big toolbox I keep hearing about, wear them and cut down on the deaths in your canyons. The last one was how many weeks ago?:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Rambler-joeI wish you would copy your post to the gloves thread Rich mentioned above. I couldn't agree with you more, but there are some other strong opinions on this topic. It is however true that the fatality in Heaps was the result of a rigging error and had nothing to do with friction or heat buildup.

Marc

[rcwild]

From Rambler-joe in another thread:


Speculation or not, is your life worth less than a pair of gloves? I don't care how much friction you may start out with, it only takes a few seconds of uncontrolled descent to have your hand blistered and useless as a brake.
Put the gloves in that big toolbox I keep hearing about, wear them and cut down on the deaths in your canyons. The last one was how many weeks ago?
Rambler-joe

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing gloves to protect your hands from friction. It is important, however, to not rely solely on gloves. People should practice rappelling in a low-risk environment and play with a variety of variables – angle of rock, one or two strands of rope, different diameters of rope, etc. They should focus on learning various ways to rig their hardware to provide the right amount of friction for each set of variables. They should also learn ways to add friction mid-rappel if it becomes necessary.

Once you have learned to make your hardware do the work, if you want/need to wear gloves, wear gloves.

My personal concern stems from observing people who have never rappelled without gloves and have never taken the time to learn how to make their hardware provide the necessary friction. Comes a time they forgot their gloves and they're about to rappel on a single strand of rope for the first time or on a skinny rope for the first time or it's their first really long rappel. Without their gloves as a crutch, they're in for a rude awakening.

[sonnylawrence]

Put the gloves in that big toolbox I keep hearing about, wear them and cut down on the deaths in your canyons. The last one was how many weeks ago?:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Rambler-joe

I usually carry gloves. I tend to use them more while down climbing to protect my hands from abrasion. I try to always use them on long drops. I prefer bare handed in warm water. In ice water they are mandatory. I could be damaging my hand and not know it due to the cold.
I was with a bunch of Italians a couple weeks ago who were surprised I wasn't wearing gloves. They were in my pack. The water was nice.
So overall, I am pro-gloves. However I do not recall accidents wherein the person wearing gloves would have saved his/her life. Anyone know of any?

[Marc McDonald]

So overall, I am pro-gloves. However I do not recall accidents wherein the person wearing gloves would have saved his/her life. Anyone know of any?

I can't say life saving, but several years ago I witnessed a "loss of control" rappelling accident where the climber was saved by a bottom belay, but not before receiving a nasty rope burn. If you think a friction burn like that is no big deal, I beg to differ. A full-thickness (third degree for you old school medics) burn to the hand is a painful and debilitating injury. I guarantee you won't be back out there rappelling the next weekend with an injury like that. In fact most WFR programs consider full-thickness burns to the hands to be an evacuation consideration.

I want to say again that all of the points about learning proper setup and learning to rappel without gloves are perfectly valid, but at least in the case above gloves would have substantially mitigated the damage.

Marc

[rcwild]

I want to say again that all of the points about learning proper setup and learning to rappel without gloves are perfectly valid, but at least in the case above gloves would have substantially mitigated the damage.

Uh ... Marc ... one could also argue that if this person had rigged for more friction from his hardware, there would have been no need to mitigate any damage.

I find many of these debates frustrating. Seems people (including me I guess) are arguing for one of two opposing extremes and hoping to convince everyone to see it our way. Fact is, in most of these instances neither position is right or wrong. Readers should simply weigh the pros and cons that are presented to ensure they are aware of the problems, risks, consequences then decide how they feel most comfortable addressing the issues.

[Paul Nelson]

I agree that newbies should learn to rappel without gloves so they learn how better control their rate of descent and encourages them to figure out other ways to add friction beside squeeze harder. I disagree that gloves should never be used.

I have noticed that dry polyester rope while on rappel gets HOT very quickly. I remember doing one moderate descent, going slow, and my gloveless hand was getting quite warm very quickly. I was able to switch hands and use my rear end for added friction to avoid a burnt hand. I bring and use my gloves on long descents.

[SLewis]

Gloves -I'd say Rich has the subject circled.

So many in the climbing/canyoning arena scoff with a scornful voice
if/when they see or hear that I wear, or most often wear, gloves in a canyon setting. What pops into my mind most often when I'm "advised by others" is the term imagination, and I'm left with the impression that the speakers are some how self absorbed and "can't imagine" what the circumstance or interests might be re me or another person.

I've cut, nicked, broken bones, busted joints, had burns and currently have aches on fingers/thumbs on both hands. Injured one thumb badly in football years ago, and broke badly another finger in a bike accident. If/when either are bumped,in ANY setting, they ache in pain. SO, in many outdoor settings - working in the yard, canyoneering, I most often wear gloves - and it has little or nothing to do with establishing friction on a line. And oh yea, I have poor circulation in my hands, they are cold most of the time. So, some of the naysayers could "walk in my hands" (what) for a winter or canyon day and their imagination may connect and finally fly.

In the past 3-4 years I mostly use the cheap, cloth/rubber coated jobbers
that are found in grocery/harware stores. T Jones sells a nice line also.
If scraping or sliding down a canyon, these work well, and if they fall apart, then a $2-3 dollar replacement, walla, is just fine. If in the arena of big, free hang raps, I'll often use leather gloves and possibly "play" some friction
with the glove - but my mindset is most often to set the friction so that arguably I/others don't need a glove.

Anyway, I don't think the glove issue is much more than a matter of style. It's not like a harness, helmet or a myriad of other devices one can arguably carry. With a rookie, who has no instinct as to friction or a rappell, I'll often mandate that they use leather gloves - for here, I can't always "imagine" how to correctly dial their friction and/or decide how the "rapper" is going to behave on the line.

So easy and instinctual for some, to walk over to another and advise that person what they should or shouldn't do. At home, work and even in "important pursuits" like spending time in the canyons - some folk are often chirping, some bellowing with directives. "Hey you should be doing it this way."

Safety concerns call for instruction and direction; and possible intervention if one perceives another might be at risk.

But beyond the safety button, the issue re wearing or not wearing gloves
is mostly comical and evidence of either personality posturing, high minded moral pandering, or simple nonsense. Please, those that don't wear them, just imagine..., and maybe some of you can/will have a warmer acceptance of those that "do."

[sonnylawrence]

If you think a friction burn like that is no big deal, I beg to differ. A full-thickness (third degree for you old school medics) burn to the hand is a painful and debilitating injury. I guarantee you won't be back out there rappelling the next weekend with an injury like that. In fact most WFR programs consider full-thickness burns to the hands to be an evacuation consideration.

I agree with Marc. Please see my post/picture from 2005. http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=576

[Marc McDonald]

Uh ... Marc ... one could also argue that if this person had rigged for more friction from his hardware, there would have been no need to mitigate any damage.

I find many of these debates frustrating. Seems people (including me I guess) are arguing for one of two opposing extremes and hoping to convince everyone to see it our way. Fact is, in most of these instances neither position is right or wrong. Readers should simply weigh the pros and cons that are presented to ensure they are aware of the problems, risks, consequences then decide how they feel most comfortable addressing the issues.
Of course you're right. The climber who did this (rappelled off the back of the Flatiron and lost control) should have had more friction rigged in. It also looked to me like she panicked and let go momentarily of the rope allowing it to build up speed before she attempted to stop herself, thereby sustaining the injury.

It's easy to get dug into a certain way of doing things, especially when you're older and the way you've been doing it has been working for you for a long time. The whole glove issue (and helmets too) is a hot button for me and I will admit to trying to be too persuasive (OK maybe a little paranoid) about the use of personal protective equipment. It made my skin crawl to see Michael Kelsey tell folks that helmets aren't important in his canyoneering book. All of our opinions are colored to some extent by our experiences. The beauty and value of these forums is in being exposed to other ways of thinking and I certainly think I've learned something from this thread.

Marc

[shooter64738]

I don't want to enter the gloves on/off debate, and I'm pretty new to the forum and rappel in general but I would like to add this observation:

Your typical run-of-the-mill leather gloves do help with heat protection, but I noticed after about 30 drops on my 20 foot tower (equal to 600 feet) my wells lamont leather gloves were INCREDIBLY slick. I had to really sqeeze down on the rope to hold the brake line. I also noticed if I stopped and wiped the sweat off my forehead, the glove would grip really well for about 10 feet then all of a sudden, super slick again. I stopped using gloves on my break hand since then, but if I were doing it all over again, I wouldn't have chosen those smooth leather gloves.

Just an observation that might come into play on a long rappel :)

[Marc McDonald]

Your typical run-of-the-mill leather gloves do help with heat protection, but I noticed after about 30 drops on my 20 foot tower (equal to 600 feet) my wells lamont leather gloves were INCREDIBLY slick. I had to really sqeeze down on the rope to hold the brake line. I also noticed if I stopped and wiped the sweat off my forehead, the glove would grip really well for about 10 feet then all of a sudden, super slick again. I stopped using gloves on my break hand since then, but if I were doing it all over again, I wouldn't have chosen those smooth leather gloves. :)

You may already be doing this, but I would be sure to have enough friction in the rappel system to prevent your gloves from getting hot in normal use. From your description it sounds as though the leather may be getting hot enough to glaze the surface. If that's the case, try adding additional friction to whatever rappel setup you're using and see if that helps.

PMI and Metolius both make a good glove designed specifically for rappel/belay. I think the Metolius is a little better, but either will work better and last longer than hardware-store gloves.

In cold wet canyons I cover my neoprene gloves with a Marmot Rappel Protector which has a rough leather palm and a neoprene back. The Marmots were originally designed to be used for ice climbing and worn over a Goretex ice glove. They were sadly discontinued a few years ago, but I keep hoping something similar will appear on the market again. I hope this information helps.

Marc

[shooter64738]

I was only making an observation on the harder smoother leather. The more supple leathers don't seem to do that, though they aren't as 'tough'. I have the same problem with my work gloves. I think a 'deer skin' might work better. It's much softer, but I don't know if they would hold up long.

[rambler-joe]

I would be sure to have enough friction in the rappel system to prevent your gloves from getting hot in normal use.
Marc
There are those on these forums that might think I'm a bit freaky about gloves, so here I go again.:rolleyes:
The idea of wearing gloves on rappel is not to let you go so fast that the leather is too hot. It's all about control and safety. Try running a few feet of rope through you bare hands, not on rappel but standing on flat ground. your hands will soon start to burn. Someone earlier said "imagine". Well imagine that your life depends on your hands being able to control the braking friction on the rope. Now put on a pair of thin leather gloves and see how much more rope you can pull through your hands. You now have control.:)
As for the glazing of the leather, you are obviously going way too fast.:eek: Marc is right, having enough friction to control the descent is critical. If something goes wrong, however, your gloves will be the difference between making the bottom safely, or SPLAT. Personally, I wear loop pile cotton gloves as used on the pot lines in the aluminium smelters. They are not thick but offer better feel and protection than leather and do not hold the heat as leather does. My gloves are years old and still doing a great job. If I can find a retail source I will post the details here. Have a look at the picture of Sonny's hand if you have any doubts.
Rambler-joe

[rcwild]

This horse ain't dead yet?

Okay, I'll kick him again :D

I'm really not trying to convince anyone they shouldn't wear gloves. I promise. But here's another potential mark in the con column. I've had students show up with their own gloves. Sometimes they're nice rappelling gloves. Sometimes they're cheap hardware store work gloves. Sometimes they fit well. Sometimes not.

If gloves don't fit well, they can be a liability. Over-sized gloves can restrict your ability to feel your grip on the rope. I see this most often with those gray leather work gloves with blue/gray stripe cuffs. To me they look like railroad engineer gloves. Probably not bad when they fit correctly.

[shooter64738]

The poster asked what type of glove works best. Rappeling or not, the Wells Lamont smooth leather gloves are not the best choice for Rappel. They are slick when they come from the store, whether you heat them up to glazing or not, and it could become a liabilty on a long rappel. As I said above I don't use a glove on my brake hand, so I'm quite sure I'm not going to fast. I do use a glove on my left hand to hold the decender when I pull the rope out, because the decender at times does get warm to the touch. If you use those particular gloves you will be expending much more effort to grip the rope as they wear smoother and smoother on each drop. It is not respective to speed in any shape form or fashion. It's not even related to rope work. They are just a slick smooth glove. As the rope rubs the gloves, the gloves become smoother and force you to squeeze down harder and harder if you want to grip anything, and in my experience can cause a loss of control more than prevent it.

I understand your points about adding friction. I can go with or without gloves, I don't care either way anymore. I'm making a point that if you choose a glove, make sure the glove you choose does not force you to expend more effort to control your rappel than you would bare handed. My work experience over the last 15-20 years with the smooth leather gloves are that they are slick. That being the choice I made for my first rappel, I would recommend a different glove, if one chooses to wear a glove.

Something that no one has mentioned is that it can be more difficult to tie with gloves on. I have enormous hands, and with gloves on (especially leather), it’s very difficult to tie a small rope. Doing it while on rappel would be even more difficult.

[SLewis]

This is not in the "imagined" arena, but rather in the "happened" corridor;
And it's happened to others that either don't pay attention or are oblivious
to what is "happening." Gloves getting stuck/caught in the biner rap device,
and/or in the rap device while one is on rappell.

Newbies, with fitted leather gloves, may place their rap hand too close to the rap device and a portion of the leather glove get trapped, under the rope and into the device. Some folk simply don't pay attention to where their rap hand is; they are petrified as they slide/stall down a rope. (you can plan, practice and enlighten folk - but still, some will slide that rap hand too high as they slide down the line - this in spite of what they are told, told, told.)

In a semi-cold and wet cyn evironment; the cloth/rubber gloves begin to develop small holes and stretch, and if one is not watching, and has one's hand close to the rap device, a portion of the glove will attach/grab either the biner or more likely the device. (once again, practice, mental alertness,
and reminders via partners, can assist in watery environments.)

Leather gloves, bulky, not workable vs.comfortable and close fitting, with
no large wrist cuff. What's best? Leather is leather. Why spend twice as much for a climbing glove vs. a tight fitting one found in a hardware store?
To each his own. I have the Metolious and another brand glove that have
extra padding in the inner palm area. They work OK, but in hindsight, were not worth the price; and over time I mostly quit using leather gloves; dialed up my rap friction sequences better and settled on the cloth/rubber ones.

There are times though, when I prefer a leather glove. Climbing, scrambling where hands potentially contact the cacti family. Cool weather in mostly a dry environment. Big free hang raps, where mentally I put the glove on for more grip/security. Times when I have to fight/box another in my crew
that won't do things My Way - hah.

Wearing leather gloves in a canyon? Possibly/probably take them off when one sets up the rap and as one assist others as they go on rap. Paying attention to the "feel" of the biner - is it locked; the feel of the rope and angle - is it set up correctly; and then once ready for the ride, the person puts back on their gloves.

Canyon environments; social conditions; experience levels; personal preference. If people do wear gloves, they probably ought to pay attention,
have a tight fitting comfortable glove, don't let it interfere with the rap device and make certain one can properly "feel" rope and other devices one is dealing with.

I sense the parties that post on this site; have the glove matter dialed in.
My lines - speaking to the choir? For me though, it's a good reminder, to pay better attention to others' if I give them gloves, make certain they fit properly; and if they use the gloves, ask for feedback and provide simple reminders.

[rcwild]

Rappel Gloves (http://www.wildernessadventures.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=93)

[DaveB]

I do not generally wear gloves for rappeling, except by defalt in cold wet canyons where neoprene scuba diving gloves are fabulous. It seems like I have no need for them when I am on a double rope rappel, but when doing a long, single rope rappel it seems like there is a huge difference in the amount of friction at the top of the rappel, as opposed to the bottom of the rappel. I feel myself needing more friction at the bottom of the rappel, and all to often it seems to come at the expense of my break hand. I might just throw in a glove on those trips where it is likely that I will do a long single rope rappel, and my neoprene gloves are not already part of my gear.

[gunghoeel]

I use CLC Pro Framer gloves
http://www.clcgloves.com/detail.htm?id=140&file=xml/professional.xml

Durability: Excellent. I've had the same pair for years and have used them on the construction site, mountain biking, and canyoneering. There's not a stitch out of place on these babies

Fit & Feel: Excellent. Gloves have a snug fit and are thin enough to provide great finger dexterity (think opposite a snowboard glove). Cutouts for the tips of the thumb, index, and middle fingers give you a good feel of the rope passing through, but still provide great protection. Palms and knuckles are reinforced to provide protection while stemming through slots. I never take my gloves off once in the canyon. I can easily setup an anchor, clip into my belay device, etc etc with my gloves ON.

Warmth: Moderate. If you are specifially looking for gloves to keep you warm, these are not it. They're better than nothing, but if you're the type to get icy cold hands sitting in a room with A/C on, you'll need different gloves.

Extra Features: Velco/neoprene cuffs provide snug fit around wrists to prevent crap from getting into the glove. Soft cotton patch on back of thumb helps you wipe sweat from your brow.

These gloves can be found at any hardware store like Home Depot or Ace.

I might try these for my next pair of gloves:
http://www.clcgloves.com/detail.htm?id=175&file=xml/extreme.xml

General Tips:

I would stay away from:

Cheap cotton gloves (low durability)
Rubberized palms (the rubber may come off on a hot rope/long descent)
Bunchy gloves (gloves may get caught in belay device and do not provide enough rope "feel")
Gloves that you have to take off to feel comfortable: let me reiterate, I never take off my gloves in the canyon, and never feel like I have to. In fact, once I have them on, I forget about them. Setting anchors, tying knots, clipping into my ATC... are all things I can easily do with my gloves on. If you take gloves on and off repeatedly, you WILL lose them.

[Vallejo]

I use lycra gloves with a latex cover in the palm. They're excellent against abrasion when gripping a rock and you can even tie a knot in your shoes with them. When you do a canyon against the river flow, gripping from the rocks is sometimes the only way to keep going upriver.

These gloves avoids hurting your finger tips and are pretty good for gripping from wet smooth and slippery rocks.

These kind of gloves are very cheap, too. Here's a pic that I found in the web:

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00rCdEjBpqgTVGM/PU-Glove-Dyneema-PU-Coated-Work-Gloves-PD8024-.jpg

Greetings!

[sonnylawrence]

Gloves that you have to take off to feel comfortable: let me reiterate, I never take off my gloves in the canyon, and never feel like I have to. In fact, once I have them on, I forget about them. Setting anchors, tying knots, clipping into my ATC... are all things I can easily do with my gloves on. If you take gloves on and off repeatedly, you WILL lose them.
Generally I keep my gloves on all the time. But, never say "never."
While downclimbing with Ram in the Cascades a couple weeks ago, I took off my fingerless gloves. I felt I needed the extra friction of skin against rock to make it past a hairy section. Once I was through, I put them back on.
This year in a tributary to the Grand Canyon, we had to do a very exposed finger tip traverse. Tom Jones was the first to take off his gloves to negotiate it.

[Parker]

I am an advocate of no gloves. You can feel more without them and stay more 'in touch' with your rope- feeling any shots or bad abraisions and by the blackness of your hands you have a better idea of when it should be washed. He he!

[jcampbell]

I frickin' love framing gloves. I built half of a house while wearing a pair. I'll give them a shot in the canyon, but I have concerns about mixing leather and water.