Contingency Anchors

[rcwild]

Originally Posted by Paul Nelson

However, somehow the tie-off came undone! Now the block was rigged just like it would be for rappelling.

Evan mentioned clipping a carabiner through the small hole of the figure eight and around the retrieval rope. I've been doing this and have had no problems.

Originally Posted by Paul Nelson

I also noticed when loaded it appeared the rope might bind against the rapide making it difficult to release unless you pull the figure-8 away from the rapide.

I've been playing around with this system a lot lately, including with students at courses in Arizona and here. Only observed this problem a couple times with a heavy person on the line. I directed the operator to clip their tether into the carabiner dangling from the small hole on the figure eight. They only had to pull back slightly to free the rope.

[evanojenkins]

Paul,

I'm very surprised to hear this experience.

Can you clarify whether you left the carabiner dangling in the small hole as recommended? (see my note in post#88 of this threat). The only physical way for the block to untie is for the bight to pass back over the neck, which is made extemely secure by the dangling carabiner. If you did not use the dangling carabiner than I'd be less surprised.

Carabiner dangling in small hole: When the technique was first invented it was just done on the eight (without the dangling carabiner in the small hole) as per the picture on page 6 of this thread. This works fine, but there is a small risk of the dead rope working its way over the stem. Leaving a carabiner dangling from the small hole effectively removes this risk and adds no inconvenience. Assuming you are carrying the eight on a carabiner anyway (clipped into a gear loop) you just unclip the eight and carabiner from your harness as a single unit and install it on the rope as a single until (pulling the loop over the stem and biner). This gives complete peace of mind and I strongly recommend this as standard practice (should probably include in photos of system etc). Obviously if you’ve run out of biners for some reason than that’s a special exception!

On the binding issue, this has rarely be found to be a problem, but if it does bind it is easily released by clipping your cow's tail (safety tether) into the dangling carabiner and using your body weight to ease it away from the rapide:

The rope usually runs very smoothly as I let it through the eight (which is still sitting against the rapide link). In the extremely unlikely event that the rope is not running smoothly because it is pinching against the rock you can clip your cow’s tail into the dangling carabiner in the small hole and use your body weight to prise the eight away from the rock – in practice this is almost never necessary but worth remembering in case it happens.

Evan

[rcwild]

Originally Posted by evanojenkins

In Europe the Magic is marketed by Salewa and called the "Salewa Guide".

I plan to order a few of these from Europe. Anyone interested let me know soon and I'll add to my order for you.

[Canyonbug]

Originally Posted by Paul Nelson

However, somehow the tie-off came undone! Now the block was rigged just like it would be for rappelling. Fortunately I noticed it very early and grabbed the pull side of the rope to stop my possible rapid descent! Since I was near the top, I was able climb back up and I replaced the block with a clove hitch on a carabineer. I have no idea how it came undone from the time I checked it, got on rope, grabbed the rope bag, and unclipped my safety. Until I consult with others and due more testing, I will not be using this method.

That could be quite frightening. I too have played with this technique and have taught it in our course last weekend. Of course the students like this method a lot more than the munter/mule. One issue I did observe is some of the students were not snugging up the rope against the Figure 8. They would put it around the Figure 8 in the proper configuration but leave the rope loose. As soon as they would start to pull the block against the rapid the loop would come out. I had to make sure that the loop and all of the rope was snugged up against the Figure 8. Also if it is not immediately weighted and left dangling the rope could work it self loose and come off. Some things to check on before you start your rappel.

Originally Posted by Paul Nelson

I also noticed when loaded it appeared the rope might bind against the rapide making it difficult to release unless you pull the figure-8 away from the rapide. I did not try this with a heavy load to test my observation. However, others have not mentioned this problem, so I maybe it not a problem. When using the French method I have had no problems getting the rope to release under load.

I would agree with Rich in putting your tether through the small hole and pulling it away just a bit. On the other side I have had the munter bind against the rock so neither one is perfect. I do like the Figure 8 more though for ease of use and smoother lower.

[Paul Nelson]

Originally Posted by evanojenkins

Paul,

I'm very surprised to hear this experience.

Can you clarify whether you left the carabiner dangling in the small hole as recommended? (see my note in post#88 of this threat). The only physical way for the block to untie is for the bight to pass back over the neck, which is made extemely secure by the dangling carabiner. If you did not use the dangling carabiner than I'd be less surprised.

For others, I clipped a safety carabineer from the small hole to the anchor webbing to prevent the tie-off from coming undone. Being the last man down, I removed the carabineer clipped into the small hole of the figure-8. With the thin and flexible nature of the Imlay 8mm rope, I did not think the tie-off would pass back over the neck easily; in hindsight this was an incorrect assumption!

I like the compactness of Spanish method for the pull down, but I think the French method is easier to rig (no error in making the wrong twist), easier to release in an emergency, and is less prone to coming undone by itself. Until I get more comfortable with the Spanish method, I am using the French method as my standard contingency block.

[Paul Nelson]

Originally Posted by Canyonbug

That could be quite frightening.

I agree and that is why I am posting my experience so others can learn from my mistake. I think my sphincter is still sore! I bring the rope bag down with me, so it was easy to grab the pull side to stop my descent. The fact that it occurred very early into the descent and due my experience and calm under pressure that I was able resolve the problem before it escalated to a more life threatening event.

Originally Posted by Canyonbug

I too have played with this technique and have taught it in our course last weekend. Of course the students like this method a lot more than the munter/mule. One issue I did observe is some of the students were not snugging up the rope against the Figure 8. They would put it around the Figure 8 in the proper configuration but leave the rope loose. As soon as they would start to pull the block against the rapid the loop would come out. I had to make sure that the loop and all of the rope was snugged up against the Figure 8. Also if it is not immediately weighted and left dangling the rope could work it self loose and come off. Some things to check on before you start your rappel.

As standard practice, I always pull hard on any knot or rigging to make sure it is set properly and so it cannot come undone. In this case, it did just that. However, between when I checked the anchor and the 30-60 seconds it took to get on rope, grab the rope bag, and unclip my safety, something happened to cause the tie-off to eventually become undone. I also have a habit of loading and looking at the anchor before I unclip my safety to make sure everything looks ok, and I did not notice any problems. However, my failure to notice a problem could be due to my inexperience in using this method.

I would like to add, that the use of a carabineer though the small hole is very important for safety when using the Spanish method. If a flexible and small diameter 8 mm rope can come undone, then stiffer and thicker ropes are more prone to coming undone. LEARN from my experience!

Edited on May 5, 2007:
The reference to Spanish Method was my incorrect attempt to give the twist-tie off method a name to distinguish it from other methods using a contingency block. I now want to call it the 'Evan method' since he & Michelle are responsible for bringing it to the ACA website. See post 100 for more details.

[evanojenkins]

Paul,

Thanks for clarrifying these important details. This clearly re-iterates the recommendation that the carabiner is always left in the small hole. It is extremely hard for the bight to find its way over a dangling carabiner. That is why the French added it in 2004.

For total security the caribiner can be clipped into the pull strand and left there for the pull. I don't do that while I'm standing next to it "operating it" as it slows down the contingency sequence, but i do if I leave it alone and for the pull down.

I'm very glad that your quick reactions saved this from being an accident! I would have agreed with your assumtion that you would get away without using the carabiner with a thin flexible rope, so this is a valuable lesson and example - thanks for sharing it.

2 minor things:

This isn't the "Spanish method". That is different method again - one I've not used much as I'm a convert to this method.

I don't recommend clipping the carabiner on the small hole directly into the anchor chain/sling. If you really want to make that connection then use a quickdraw. I've seen the direct connection (to a chain) get badly wedged when weight was applied

Evan

[Paul Nelson]

Originally Posted by evanojenkins

Paul,
Thanks for clarrifying these important details.

Your Welcome

Originally Posted by evanojenkins

This isn't the "Spanish method". That is different method again - one I've not used much as I'm a convert to this method.

Let give this method a name. I know Michelle did not invent it, but she is the first one to discribe it on the ACA website, so unless someone has a better name, I propose the Michelle method. Maybe I called it Spanish because she metioned she saw it while she was in Spain?

Originally Posted by evanojenkins

I don't recommend clipping the carabiner on the small hole directly into the anchor chain/sling. If you really want to make that connection then use a quickdraw. I've seen the direct connection (to a chain) get badly wedged when weight was applied

I noticed this as a possible issue, and in this case there was no problem with it getting wedged. In other locations, I used a quickdraw.

[ratagonia]

Originally Posted by Paul Nelson

I would like to add, that the use of a carabineer though the small hole is very important for safety when using the Spanish method. If a flexible and small diameter 8 mm rope can come undone, then stiffer and thicker ropes are more prone to coming undone. LEARN from my experience!

The Black Diamond Super 8 has a particularly small and smooth small end, and may not be the best choice for this technique. One thing about the Magic, the "small end" is quite large.

Tom

[catware11]

Originally Posted by Paul Nelson

Maybe I called it Spanish because she metioned she saw it while she was in Spain?

Greece, actually. You should thus call it the 'Spartan' method. Lean & mean.


Definitely don't name it after me. Evan gets the credit for showing it to me (and to others, including Brian, at the time). I'll defer to him for picking a name. I'm glad to read that others are finding it so useful.